Several of us were trained as Christian clowns a few years ago under one teacher. One of the clowns started a local alley and chose to meet at a county community center. We all assumed we were a group of Christian clowns, but now some non-Christians have become part of the group. Because we meet in a county facility, our "Christianity" is now necessarily compromised. We could move our meeting place, but we now have some non-Christians in the alley. They never wanted to establish any rules or procedures. There is no formal way to join the alley, just show up once!

I want to start another group which is composed of just Christians so that when we offer someone a troupe of Christian clowns, we can deliver that. No one can minister in the Name of Jesus who is not one of His. The question is...what is the best way to go about determining the reality of Christianity when someone wants to be a part of our group? This is a ticklish problem that we never anticipated. We are going to meet in a church, but there might be clowns coming from different denominations, theologies, and ideas about what it means to be a Christian. I thought that we could write up a Statement of Faith and ask them to sign that if they agree, and then to tell us what their relationship is with Jesus today. Has anyone ever faced this problem before?

You can look at this several ways. One would be to decide and set rules or codes for your group. Remember that you may be asked to perform for many different denominations or segments of the population.

You can also look at it as a witnessing opportunity to those interested in clowning. The Alley I belong to is not an organized one, some are into the business side of things but all of us are also into ministryside of things as well, however we do open it to those who would like to join us but they know up front it is a ministry based group.

No right or wrong with either group, just wanted to point out a few other ways of looking at it.

Thanks for your thoughts SaphireSue. My thing is that if we bill a group as Christian clowns, we should provide that. Also, we cannot be so sure about the behavior of non-Christians, or what they may say/do.

Why not just invite the few who happen to want to do this as a special ministry to get together once in awhile on the side (even in someone's basement) to discuss that which is particular to Christian Clowning?

As far as the particulars of faith/behavior, one would think that someone who isn't interested in such a thing simply would not participate.

If you want to try to get too specific with asking people to sign statements and such, though, then you really are opening up a can of worms which isn't limited to clowning, but the difficulties which Christian denominations have in defining who's who and what's what and where people belong, in general.

And, while I understand and appreciate where you are coming from in trying to preserve a certain degree of integrity or Spirit driven-ness when it comes to your statement, "No one can minister in the Name of Jesus who is not one of His," I would also remind you of these words from the gospel:

Then John said in reply, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company."

Jesus said to him, "Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

Thanks for your thoughts, Tim. I know the passage you refer to in Luke 9:50. In Luke 11:23 He says, "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters". The concern I have is that the non-Christian clowns exhibit worldly behavior and language in the meetings and how can I be sure they will not use that in a ministry event that is truly a ministry?This is just a ticklish issue I have never had to think about before because everything I did as a Christian was in a ministry or the church. I was never in a venue which brought in non-Christians to "minister in the Name of Jesus." It is something to think about. The reason I thought to have them sign a Statement of Faith is that even with different denominations, if they believe in the basic points of Christianity, that's all we can ask. Thank-you for your thoughts.

Belle this is really a more common occurrence than you may realize. In that churches' all across the country are lowering there standards. They do not go to the basics of Jesus. But I could go on all day about this. And it's funny how minds work alike, I was thinking of the same verse, "if they are not against us, then they are for us" this is true. However, I am a Awana worker at my local church and we would not let someone (a leader/worker) who is not saved work in Awana or be a leader. The reason being, you can't share what you don't have.

The best advice I can give you is to: pray, seek Gods wisdom in His word and pray some more. But from my experience, you may want to consider writing a code of conduct. With all good clubs and organizations there are always rules.

Hope this helps you, I will be praying that you will have peace in your hart for what ever the Lord wants.

Thank-you Wallybrad, for taking your time to help. I'm sure something good will come from this. I'm just real serious about how I represent Jesus. I want to honor Him first, even if I have to get into ticklish situations with people. He comes first.

The reality is that we exist in an imperfect (fallen) world with imperfect people. Even among devout Christians, "the just man falls seven times a day."

Ultimately, we'll never be able to isolate ourselves entirely out of the larger picture and sinfulness. Instead, we have to find a way to live and cope with it.

Integrity is key, yes. Even in grade school, I recall a music teacher who used to insist that we do things right in rehearsal because it would be too easy to slip in performance if solid habits were not previously formed.

As such, you may simply have to explain to some of the clowns who don't share your particular framework of what you're about and the kind of behavior/approach which is expected at events. But, beware, if you want to function in any larger context of the world, at some point you may have to be flexible and tolerant, too.

Under your circumstances, it does seem to me that your best bet is simply to find a few friends who you feel you can trust and take them alone out on the gigs that are of any particular concern with offering a specially Christian witness.

Thank-you Tim. I appreciate your help.

We had a guest speaker at our church last year who was a Christian Minister in Russia. He really touched me with his story and I remember it as such:

When the curtain fell many Christian churches started a branch in Russia. They need music so they went to the Russian version of the musicians Union and hired musicians. He was one and was so glad for the $5 a week pay to play christian music. He and his fellow musicians would play and at break go next door to the pub and have a couple of drinks "oh look at the time! gotta get back to Jesus stuff!" go back and play. NONE of the musicians were christians. BUT eventually he started listening to the message. gave himself to God and now is a minister of one of the largest Christian churches in Russia.

all I can advise is not to turn anyone away and live by example. You never know the seed you plant.

Thank-you Pinkie Bee. Oh, I do so want to witness to the lost and to be in groups with them to establish relationships. I am also concerned about the vulnerability of the people we are going to minister to -- the elderly, the mentally handicapped, children, etc. I am thinking that there are some places where you could include non-Christians in a Christian endeavor, but not in the "ministering" role. My concern is still those times when we are ministering as Christians for Christ. I feel that I have a responsibility to the vulnerable people who are trusting us. There are other times when clowns do not minister in such a Christian ministerial function, parades, storytelling in community environments when you could certainly include the non-Christian clowns. Thank-you for all these good thoughts and comments.

Perhaps being straight up would be the best solution. Invite the "wordly" clowns to a church service or function. Maybe exclusion isn't the answer. As Pinky Bee pointed out, sometimes people are brought to Him in unusual ways...

OK, I've been keeping up with this thread and, all i've got to say about this is; who are you to judge if someone is or is not a christian? That's totally between them and God. Everyone sins from time to time, and you seem to be portraying a holier than thou attitude that you don't sin and are afraid to be around these "non-christian" clowns. How do you know that they aren't Christians? Have you been eavesdropping on their spiritual talks with God? I understand that Christians shouldn't use certain language.. but according to who you talk to, that language that shouldn't be used could be fart or crap to one person, or F**k to another person.. I happen to agree with the latter, but i know plenty of christians who still use hells and damns.. and they're still good christian people, and who am i to judge their salvation, or ability to minister to people because they choose to use persuasive language from time to time.. Heck, even I have used them from time to time, and i'm sure you have before too.. You sound like you would be one of the people that would condemn my church, because most of the people there have tattoos, piercings, and enjoy music that involves distorted guitars, and maybe even some screaming, let alone the fact that it glorifies christ.. So before you sit there and talk about how unrighteous your fellow clowns are, why don't you give them a chance and see if they have a good testimony, sometimes those that you think are least righteous, have the best chance at winning over unbelievers..

Dear IKewt, that was an interesting response. The people I refer to are non-Christian by their own admission. The main question is do we have an obligation to provide Christian clowns to a venue which we took with the understanding that we were a Christian clown troupe, or not? What happens when we take someone who is not a Christian (by their own admission) and they say or do something which is totally dishonoring to Christ? Do we have any obligation to the integrity of our ministry, and to the recipients of our ministry, or is it more important to consider the feelings and acceptance of the clowns? This is just a more complicated issue than I expected to get into when I started clowning, and one you have to think and pray through.

Were Jesus' disciples christians when he utilized them to begin their ministries?

I suppose it depends a lot upon what, exactly, one is attempting to accomplish.

I'm familiar with some Christian clown groups. It is certainly a good thing for those who wish to have that particular emphasis of outreach. In some sense, it is no different than people who wish to focus their work in other areas such as circus, hospital, or parties - who may have a specialty interest and require training/practice for such in a more intense manner than a generalized clowning group can provide in order to accomplish their task effectively.

If it is made clear what the purpose and nature of such a group is, there really shouldn't be a problem.

I think that some of the legitimate concern which exists here, however, is to the nature of why and whether certain clowns should be excluded from certain types of collaboration, if there is not necessarily an inherent risk that it will undermine the integrity of outreach.

Let's take an example. You're doing a church event with skits. A clown who isn't a Christian wants to be involved. So you give him a part to play. Where's the harm in that? Or, perhaps, you're invited to facepaint at an event. The people who hire you want "family friendly" entertainment. You have clowns in your group who aren't Christian, but who can be expected to act appropriately. Why shouldn't they be allowed to help out?

OTOH, perhaps if the clowns were being asked to witness personally how Jesus has led them in life, it would take someone with that sort of life experience to be able to offer the statement of faith.

Can you be a bit more clear, therefore, perhaps with an example (or a few) of what your particular concerns are that you foresee a potential problem by intermingling non-Christian clowns in the offerings which you provide to those who would want to hire the group? What are some of the practical risks which worry you?

ok, I addressed why I believe you should include non-christians but here's the thing that I cant seem to get my mind around

we are talking about CLOWNS arent we??
I mean arent ALL clowns kindof by definition able to ACT appropriate for all age groups. I have never ever ever heard a clown in my group in any public setting drop the F bomb or act inapproporiate. cause thats what clown's do

so, whats the big fear??
I dont get it!

Maybe Jango Edwards joined recently?

There is a Clown code of ethics on the forum somewhere cause I have a copy of it sometimes read over it from time to time, and it covers all that.

I went back and checked, Scruffy posted it a while back thats where I got it from

That's cute. I like it.

I am worried that you are being blinded by your faith, causing you to assume that non-Christians are unable to perform a Christian skit without doing it in some un-Christian way. I think that you are doing a disservice to your fellow clowns. Is it more important to you to be around people who are the same as you, believe the same as you, then it is to perhaps have an opportunity to spread what you believe as the word of God to everyone?

I understand that you fear these non-Christians are going to ruin any Christian clowning that they participate; so don't invite them to participate. I think that by creating a separate alley or trying to kick people out of an alley because of their faith is asking for a whole mess of trouble.

Keep in mind that I am a self described non-Christian, and I have never done any faith based clowning.

This is a complicated situation that is really not that complicated.

I run Christian Clown troupe. The Steel City Clown Brigade has a minister, deacons and we meet in a church. We attend church as a group hold our own services and have an active prayer life at each of our meetings. Everyone that attend understand this.

If your group does not clearly state this to every new person then things could get confusing. In the case of our group people would figure it out if we did not tell them. When we opened or closed in prayer it would be a clue.

Now in the case of the mixed group if you were not in charge of it there is nothing that you can do about it. If you want to start your own group then lay the ground rules when you start out.

In the Pittsburgh area we are the only clown group that juggle does magic and all the circus skills. Part of our mandate is to perserve these skills. To that end we teach at the local COAI Chapter and invite people of all faiths to attend out regular practices. We have taught Jews and Muslims how to juggle and use the clown skills. They knew what we were when they started attending. No one has made an attempt to change us or get us to be secular.

When it comes time for an Evangelistic show on the Christians take part. We have never had someone that does not beleive try and horn in on a show.

On the other hand we have had five people come to known Christ within our group. they are people who claimed to be unchurched or nonbeleivers. They did not attend church because they thought people would judge them.

Each of these people started off with a non speaking part in our of stage shows. In the bible there are several instances when God used Pagans to do his work. So there is no conflict with someone just starting their walk with Christ doing God's work.

So you have two issues here.

Issue 1: If you are starting a Christian Clown troupe start it off in prayer and keep praying. It would also help to have a regular bible study and a home church.

Issue 2:If you are part of group that has become secular and Christian then you have to live with it. Since you were not in charge of this group you could not control that.

I will be keeping you and your issues in my prayers.

Dear Zeepo,
Thanks for all your insight. To make a long story short, we do start and end our other group with prayer. It is truly amazing, but here in the Bible Belt, there is some confusion about what it means to be a Christian; like belonging to a club or not, at the moment or not. But, since I last wrote some of us did start a "Christian" clown focus group (in addition to our other group) and it is already stimulating us to go deeper with a Christian focus. I am thrilled with what is resulting. Your words are wise and come from a rich experience. I thank you for all your insight and especially for the promise to pray for this. Isn't it beautiful that people we may never meet in this life are bound together and care for each other and will pray for each other! Thank-you for all your help.

Belle remember that if you go outside and it's pitch dark and light a candle the darkness flees. How better to shine the light of God into a sinners heart than to allow him to work for God. I feel as the others a clown is a clown if really a clown and would not do anything to discredit that. Enough people do that already. When the disciples told the children they couldn't come to Jesus. He said let the children come for such is the kingdom of heaven. They judged wrongly thinking the kids would trouble him. It is good to have fellowship to grow in faith and wisdom. It is also necessary to lead the ones searching for truth. Babies grow by drinking milk but at some point have to eat. Sometimes you have to let them taste the milk to get them to drink.

Dear Zeepo,
Thanks for all your insight. To make a long story short, we do start and end our other group with prayer. It is truly amazing, but here in the Bible Belt, there is some confusion about what it means to be a Christian; like belonging to a club or not, at the moment or not. But, since I last wrote some of us did start a "Christian" clown focus group (in addition to our other group) and it is already stimulating us to go deeper with a Christian focus. I am thrilled with what is resulting. Your words are wise and come from a rich experience. I thank you for all your insight and especially for the promise to pray for this. Isn't it beautiful that people we may never meet in this life are bound together and care for each other and will pray for each other! Thank-you for all your help.

That was very touching. i am glad that it is working out for you. Have you ever read the book Fool for the Kingdom. It is by Philip D. Nobel published by Meriwether Publishing Ltd.

It is neat little book. It has some of everything it.

I would consult the ACLJ about Christians meeting in a public place. I don't believe you have to let just anyone join the group. As for the existing group all current members would have to agree on forming an "organized" group. (Legal ramifications involved) When you put a statement of faith together you also need bylaws or a set of guidelines. Somewhat like a volunteer organization like a fire department, etc. In today's society everyone is sue happy and you must be wise (as the World) and harmless (not seeking revenge) as a dove (Christ).

I would suggest going with a "Christian Viewpoint" guideline not specific to any certain Denomination as you should want ALL Christians involved. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Think of everything for your bylaws/guidelines even down to how the clown will present the Gospel and how they should conduct themselves in and out of makeup.

If it's not in the bylaws/guidelines then it's up for personal interpretation.
It doesn't' have to be done in a week but get a few that want to do this together and begin discussing it and getting ideas.it can sometimes take months or a couple of years, you can always add addendum later

If money or dues are involved you must incorporate as a non-profit. Federal Government demands this. Again, consult the ACLJ.

Hope this helps.

Thanks you sawdust,
You have given me a lot of great advice. You bring up some things I did not think of. This is very helpful.

Christian denominations...There's only two Kinds of Clowns in the World today. The Ones Saved and the ones that are going to get saved...Christianity is not a denomination, you are saved or your not saved. It's that black or white...the Only thing I can take with me in the End is some body Else...Mark 16: 15

Just because you can speak "christian ease" in a gag, skit, or magic patter doesn't make it a christian any thing...if your not saved, your not saved. A christian is Christ like, And if your not a christian and just going through the motions to be part of something...then it will not have the conviction of real Christianity...Christian Clowning is not a game that any old or young clown can play. It's not christian, if your not sold out to Jesus, Salvation, and the Forgiveness of Sin.

Christian Clowning is not doing clowning for Clown sake...it's dying to self and making Jesus Christ Lord of every thing we do or say...if your not Saved how can you do that...?

One great thing about non christians wanting to join a christian Alley is you can witness to them, Love on them and tell them about Jesus...

If you are really in a christian Alley ask if you can open your meetings with Prayer...maybe share a Bible verse two or three...

You need to ask every one the Hard Questions are we a Christian Alley, that is Christ Centered...

Then if every one agrees to that...your Alley needs to be Christ Centered, No Compromise...


I just love Keith Green....NormaL T. Joey Hard Core Christian Clowning...Luvin you All



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I don't know if you have any kind of Spiritual back ground, but Christianity...is not a religion...it is a relationship with God through Christ...

With that aside...christian clowning is a platform for sharing the Gospel of the Good News of Jesus Christ, to anyone willing to watch us perform.

We use all the Gags, Magic, Balloon Twisting and Laugh making that any other Professional Clown, Circus or other wise...would use...Most of our gags, or magic patter tell a story about Salvation, the Love of God and Jesus Christ.

As clowns we want to make people laugh at our comedy antics, as christians we want to share a message of LOVE, JESUS and the FORGIVENESS of Sin...

This thread was posted Hard Core Christianity...you came here knowing that we were a christian Thread...I love you Kind Fellow Joey, I hope this answers your questions...?

Please if you have any other questions about this you can Email me at n_t_joey@hotmail.com That go's with any one else, I am a Pastor and then a clown in the tradition of the CIRCUS...


...

Rap 7 7 7
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We try and live as simple as can be; living with as less as possible in order to reach as many souls as possible.

......Goals and qualifications

1.) We are to be born again spirit filled Christians.

2.) We commit to reading our bibles everyday.

3.) When given an opportunity to share our faith we will do so with utmost love and as much scripture as necessary.

4.) We commit to praying on a daily basis.

5.) We realize that we are not promised tomorrow and that today may be the last chance for someone to hear the

good news of the gospel, before slipping into eternity.

6.)We are not a denomination: but a body of believers in Jesus Christ living in our Kings Kingdom.

7.) We believe that you should assemble at a local fellowship of believers of your choice, prayerfully, and financially.

What we believe

1.) We believe in The tri-unity of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, maker of heaven and earth.

2.) We believe that one must have a relationship with Jesus Christ or they are not saved in the true biblical sense of it’s meaning.

3.) We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary.

4. We believe that he suffered under the hands of Pontius pilot, was crucified.

5.) We believe the third day Jesus rose from the dead.

6.) We believe he ascended to the right hand of our Father God almighty.

7.) We believe he will return to judge the world of sin and unrighteousness.

8.) We believe that the church is a universal body of believers that meet and assemble collectively anywhere, anyplace, and at anytime.

9.) We also believe in the equality and essential dignity of men and women of all ethnic cultures and backgrounds.

10.) We believe that all persons are created in the Image of God and so should reflect a godly life in actions, deeds, feeling and thinking: in their everyday lives at home, work and play, after acceptance of Jesus Into their life.

11.) We believe that men and women are to use their God given gifts for the good of the home, church, and society.


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I am praying for the following things , please pray with me...I am praying for a Help Meet, a future wife that can travel with me, someone that can Love Jesus more then me...and some one that can learn how to win the lost to Jesus with me. I am also Praying for a Motorhome to take " Fool's Wisdom Clown Circus " on the road...I am a full time Evangelist, Pastor...who uses Circus Clowning as a Platform to share Christ, the Gospel and the Good News to any one that will watch my performes. Also I am praying for the money needed to stay on the road. 161 unsaved people die every day. People are dying to go to Hell. Who are you dying to SAVE? The only thing you can take with you in the End is some body Else... Mark 16:15 I am also needing your prays for the Anointing of God to be on my Life...I can do only what I can do, if God doesn't Show up it's only me...NormaL T. and that is not to good...because out side of Jesus there is nothing Good in me. My Goodness can save no one...


Luuvin you All...Rodney " NormaL T. Joey " Burnap 928-276-1351...cell