I was reading a post that I thought would help me. A while back several members told me that if I had something to say about god I needed to do it here and not push my belief on them. I DO belive in God but trust me I am the last person that would be pushing my belief. If you are down on your luck and nothing going right I can tell you that you need to look to God and start listening. I have started listening and my busniess is picking up. I stop listening and it slows way down. Some people say I am crazy that is bussiness sense. Maybe. But everyone believes in something. My father in law said he was a athiest that there was no such thing as God. But when we lost my daughter we looked for him because he disapeared and he was in the chapel. PRAYING! So everyone believes something weather you want to admit it or not. MAybe you think you are more of a man because you say you don't. Only one person can judge you and I am not that person. HOWEVER you told me to post here to not push my belief on you so you should stay out of this area and not push your belief on me.

So everyone believes something weather you want to admit it or not. MAybe you think you are more of a man because you say you don't. Only one person can judge you and I am not that person.

I feel for you and your loss and maybe your father in law did have doubts and it took a loss to test him, that however would make him an agnostic not an aethiest. I think it's a bit rich to assume everyone believes in something though because a member of your family was unaware of the distinction. Personally I have read a lot of religious texts and none of them can get over the "leap of faith aspect" I believe in science as even though new theories are always replacing old, Scientists can at least admit they don't know all the answers.

Now the following may shock those of you that seek to pigeonhole aeithiests. I believe in Jesus, I'll say that again I believe in Jesus or more accurately I believe in Yeshua (Jesus is a Latin translation of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is a transaltion of the Hebrew Yeshua). I don't believe he was the son of God, or that he cleansed the world of sin (I believe we all have to account for our own actions). But I do believe he was a prophet who taught many good things as there is too much historical evidence to refute such a claim. I think dressing him up as messiah, A jewish belief before it was ever a Christian one (the messiah originally meant the one from the line of David a warrior king who lead the Jews to freedom)- one to remember the next time we divide the Judeo Christian Belief structure on teh Grounds of crucifixion)

Do I need saved? No - Having grown up in a Judeo Christian country I have already assimilated the most important teaching of Christianity - The moral Compass - Without Religion the teaching that have over centuries worked its ways into our laws and personal morality would still exist.

I visit this forum because I want to learn more about everything I have a voracious appetite for learning all I can about clowning and the world in general in my short time here. It does sometimes mean I have to ignore the arrogance of people who somehow think as I don't have an imaginary friend they need to introduce me and save my soul.

Yours in Science

Smartii

I really thought this section was for the clowns that believed in Christianity and Christian entertainment and/or ministry through clowning. I thought this section was for these people to share their faith, skits, ideas and suggestions amongst each other. But it seams like this area is for those who don't believe to attact those who do. If this area is for those that share a certain interest and you don't share that interest, why would you even read this section. Much less post anything in it. What exactly is this section for? Post your belief here and you are bound to get verbally attacked.

A great bunch of the clowns that post seam so mean. I can't imagine them bringing joy to anyone. If they are in business, I know I would never hire them. Like any social site there are people reading and knowing and all of them are not clowns either. If they're in a business and business gets slow they blame it on non-skilled cheap clown. But a lot of people choose clowns on personality (fun to be in the presence of) and not necessarily skills.

Mr. Bonkers, I don't know your skill level but I read your posts. It seams you have the positive characteristics that I would have thought clowns would have. And just want to say that through your FAITH all things are possible.

To Mr. B. Daft:
Please don't send me any more emails as I won't read them and only delete them. Frankly, you seam like you could be a modern day Stephen kings "It". And if I wasn't a Christian, I believe a contact with you would scare the HELL out of me.

I really thought this section was for the clowns that believed in Christianity and Christian entertainment and/or ministry through clowning.
Did you genuinely MISS the places in my posts where I identified not only as a Christian, but as a staff member at several churches, or are you just choosing to ignore those facts because my definition of "Christian" doesn't match up with yours, Bonkers' and Rodney's?

You mention ministry through clowning. Tell me how you get anything useful to the art of clowning from the strident, unthinking diatribes that Rodney has posted over and over, even in threads and sub-forums that have NOTHING to do with ministry?

I thought this section was for these people to share their faith, skits, ideas and suggestions amongst each other.
Again, "THESE people"? What criteria are you using to determine who "these people" are or should be? You're doing a wonderful job of proving that your "faith", so-called, is a matter of conformity to your definitions of things, and NOT a matter of any experience with the transcendent, be it God or nature or anything. You are drawing lines in the sand based on a presumption that your version of the God-story is the correct one and you just made clear that your little band of "true believers" should be the arbiters of who does or does not belong.

But it seams like this area is for those who don't believe to attact those who do.
No, this area is for the discussion of "Church and Ministry CLOWNING". I have been involved in church work, especially with children, over and over for nearly 20 years now. The dissenting opinions you've read were objections to a total lack of relevance in some people's posts as it relates to CLOWNING. The threads you are getting your sensible, modest briefs in a knot about were threads that asked "What does clowning have to do with church?" and another thread that basically turned into a feeding frenzy of misguided religious zeal as soon as someone hinted that they were a non-believer. Alex, in particular, was singled out for some VERY insensitive blather about how ALL of his ancestors and ethnic relations believe things that Alex does not, and the unwritten suggestion was that he was rather stupid for not believing same. If you'd like me to "seam" not to "attact" you, Tyanbe, you might want to consider this:

What any of you have to say in ANY thread on this Forum needs to be held to ONE standard: the pertinence and usefulness of your words TO THE ART OF CLOWNING, whether it be religious clowning or not.

The fight started when it mattered less that we were talking about clowning and mattered more that a handy soap-box had been found and used for preaching.

If this area is for those that share a certain interest and you don't share that interest, why would you even read this section. Much less post anything in it. What exactly is this section for? Post your belief here and you are bound to get verbally attacked.
Again, go and assume that I don't share your interest. It proves that you don't care to dialogue; you just want to be made out to look like a martyr for your particular brand of religious belief. Many people who read things on the Forum read in ALL the sub-forums because, odd as it sounds, there MIGHT be something worthwhile to read about CLOWNING. Oh, and posting a personal belief would never get anyone attacked here, by me or by anyone. Let someone try to insist that you're not ALLOWED to believe as you do, and I will be one of the first, if not THE first, to lay a verbal beating on them. PERSONAL (meaning, your own) belief has never been attacked. What got attacked was cheap shots aimed at people who were seen as potential converts, people who have made it very clear that they are uninterested in conversion. Are you feeling attacked now? Maybe you need to realize that your Bible says that your belief is FIRST to be a matter between you and your God, and THEN, secondarily, a matter that you share with others, PROVIDED that they ASK "the hope that is in you". The blathering that Rodney and others have done here has ZERO to do with relationship or understanding of one another; it has EVERYTHING to do with winning arguments. It's a waste of time.

A great bunch of the clowns that post seam so mean. I can't imagine them bringing joy to anyone. If they are in business, I know I would never hire them. Like any social site there are people reading and knowing and all of them are not clowns either. If they're in a business and business gets slow they blame it on non-skilled cheap clown. But a lot of people choose clowns on personality (fun to be in the presence of) and not necessarily skills.
Stay out of our personal beliefs and there's no mean about us. I have VERY good friends with whom I disagree on a LOT of points concerning our common Christian faith, but they will tell you that we spend hours a week LAUGHING hysterically together and reminding one another how much we genuinely LOVE each other. Try not preaching like a broken record and see if that helps.

You can't imagine certain clowns bringing joy to anyone because you need those clowns to be YOUR sort of people before you can imagine them having anything good to offer. I bet you're no different when it comes to gays or Democrats, either. You just can't imagine them being anything but a pile of beliefs that you disagree with. Not people, just statistics.

If they're in a business and business gets slow they blame it on non-skilled cheap clown (sic).

Now, who's attacking? I'm one of the people who used almost those exact words. YES, to a great degree, I DO blame SOME lack of work on a market that is oversaturated by talentless hacks with balloon pumps. Deal with it. So a lot of people choose clowns based on personality, do they? If they're looking for a zealot who wants all dissenting opinions disregarded and their posters banned, I know which clowns to refer them to.

Mr. Bonkers, I don't know your skill level but I read your posts. It seams you have the positive characteristics that I would have thought clowns would have. And just want to say that through your FAITH all things are possible.

NONE of the threads in question had ANYTHING to do with clown skills. One was a theoretical/philosophical discussion about the relationship between clowning and ministry and the other was originally a rant by Rodney about how everyone who believes differently than him will eventually go to Hell. The positive characteristics that Tyanbe thinks clowns should have might be there, but I'd like you to re-read the posts that Bonkers, Rodney and even YOU have made and then please quote the paragraphs where you are dealing with CLOWNING and its related skills. I surmise that you will find little more than re-hashings of topics like balloons, shoes and noses mixed in with a lot of whining about being "attacked", when your only real failure was one of relevance to the ART we are trying to encourage.

Seriously, if you want to discuss YOUR faith between believers of the same evangelical/zealous persuasion, use the PRIVATE MESSAGE function or start a sub-forum SPECIFICALLY for religious DISCUSSION and NOT for CLOWNING nor EVANGELISM. Clowning is the topic in EVERY one of the sub-forums here, and shallow, intolerant evangelistic efforts got in the way.

This is OUR Forum, too. We keep our personal jihad out of play when it comes to clowning. Try it sometime.

To Mr. B. Daft:
Please don't send me any more emails as I won't read them and only delete them. Frankly, you seam like you could be a modern day Stephen kings "It". And if I wasn't a Christian, I believe a contact with you would scare the HELL out of me.

WHY couldn't you use the PRIVATE MESSAGE button to say that to Barry? It's because you need to feel like a martyr again, and you wanted to get in a cheap shot.

If you want him to stop emailing you, then REPLY to his email and then BLOCK his username.

You called the man a "Stephen King's IT" and you say he would scare the HELL out of you. I've seen pictures of Barry with smiling little kids, parents and adults. Why not show us how lovingly YOU interact with people? Oh, wait... you just did. You called names and whined.

I know who "looks for qualities" like yours... the same people who applaud you for insulting people like Barry and pretending that you're being "persecuted" for your faith. You, sir, are USELESS to this Forum as a source of anything relevant to clowning.

But it seams like this area is for those who don't believe to attact those who do.

I don't quite know where you get this attact(sp) idea from I mentioned my own beliefs, I never stood on anyone elses the original post was about why do you come to this forum and I believe I answered that in my original post. The original post also hinted that aethiesm is a mask to look tough but in the face of true tests we will all repent.

The only 2 people attacking peoples beliefs seem to be the original poster and yourself tyanbe1

As it happens I have many christian, muslim, and jewish friends. We actually enjoy discourse on a variety of subjects I never overstep the mark and attack their religious faith. As they know not to try to convert me. Many of these discussions are of benefit to all us as they argue a point test their faithand come away more secure in their beliefs as do I.

I find I bring and element of the historical and can play devils advocate (am I allowed to use the D word in here?). I personally find it quite amusing to see them all arguing about how to worship God. As from an outsiders perpective Yahweh, Jehovah, and Allah are the same God. I honestly believe if more people could see this there would be less war and hatred on this planet.

Personally I would prefer children to be entertained by people like myself, Barry, and Glupi - who are capable of accepting many peoples viewpoint than by people who feel the need to "save" them.

Also I ask you this if you cannot bear to read posts that whilst not belittling your faith ask you to accept others do not agree, Then why clown? The clown is supposed to be the buffoon the trickster, the harlequin all designed to put a cat amongst the pigeons - shake up convention and point fun at ourselves and our foibles. How can you clown when you take everyones opinion to heart?

Smartii

A great bunch of the clowns that post seam so mean. I can't imagine them bringing joy to anyone.

Of course you are right mean clowns would never entertain anyone to illustrate this point I've posted a video of the Rastelli's, notice how the mean clown never gets any laughs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyWpZEivNSI


Smartii

Seriously, if you want to discuss YOUR faith between believers of the same evangelical/zealous persuasion, use the PRIVATE MESSAGE function or start a sub-forum SPECIFICALLY for religious DISCUSSION and NOT for CLOWNING nor EVANGELISM. Clowning is the topic in EVERY one of the sub-forums here, and shallow, intolerant evangelistic efforts got in the way.


Or join the "Christian Forum" and talk about Christianity there.

I believe in science as even though new theories are always replacing old, Scientists can at least admit they don't know all the answers.

Smarti, I would like to respectfully point out that many Christians -- myself included -- see no conflict between science and their beliefs.

Yes, Alex, I think there's a BIG difference between discussing Christian CLOWNING and discussing Christianity. I know which one I'd rather discuss.

The real shame is that there is THOUSANDS of years of history that have shaped both religion and the art of clowning, and yet, here we are, stuck in a debate that incorporates ideas and philosophies that are barely 200 years old. Sadly we find as much of a lack of understanding of the history of clown as we do the history of man's attempts at explaining the universe by means of organized religions.

I resent the fact that you say I went out of my way Salvo. I joined clown forum several years ago to streghten my skills. I wanted to learn more about clowning. However I said something about trust in god and he will lead your path. I recieved very cruel emails from some people on here . Now it looks like the cowards are changing their names. WE are a brother hood of clowns wheather we are Christian, Buddast, muslim or what ever. I am not that smart of a person but I do know how to support my fellow clowns. and instead it seems like a couple people are wanting to attack people on the forum for saying what you think. I vote if you can't say something nice don't say it at all!... I am not trying to push buttons I thought we were all adults and I could ask a question. BUT I guess you are right Maybe I should not talk at all.

But in my defense I said everyone believes something Glupi believes in SCIENCE! so you believe in something!

Smarti, I would like to respectfully point out that many Christians -- myself included -- see no conflict between science and their beliefs.

Hi Pickles, I'm sorry if that's how I came across. I have friends who are Scientists and Christians so I know Christian beliefs do not have to find themselves at odds with science. and I do not intend to offend Christians with my beliefs. my point was merely to point out that Aethiesm is in itself a belief and should be privy to the rights afforded other faiths. If the post had "read my father in law was a christian and I found find praying in a synagogue" and implied that the conversion from christianity to judaism was correct (and I'm not saying it is or it isn't) then I'm sure there would be uproar.

My point was merely to show that whilst it is deemed ok to belittle Aethiesm. Some of us have studied long and hard to come to the conclusion we hold, and I believe someone should stand up for Aethiests and defend our beliefs.

Ps Pickles I'd like to thank you for a very courteous response to an otherwise contentious thread. It came as a breath of fresh air in an heated debate (which I will be the first to admit I had my part in creating)

Yours in whatever you hold dear

Smartii

I NEVER said I believe in science... where did you get that idea?

I accept the theories and possibilities that science has put forth concerning life and the universe, but I don't "believe" in science, as though science has to be some infallible god for me. In fat, that's one of the reasons I DO accept scientific findings over against a LOT of illogical and inane theology... it's precisely BECAUSE the practitioners of science in its various disciplines ADMIT that they have no fail-safe answers. You and your ilk, however, are pretty darn sure of yourselves. That's why I don't TRUST you. Keep pushing the wrong buttons, and I will soon go from not TRUSTING to not LIKING. That could be bad.

Trying re-arranging your wiring so the THINKING mechanism is in the circuit BEFORE the TYPING function.

Let me try and say it again, Bonkers... I. That means me, Glupi. Identify As. That means recognize myself as and relate to others as. A CHRISTIAN. No, not your brand of this/that, choose/lose, black/white theology, but I am a Christian nonetheless.

Pickles also said she believes in SCIENCE... AS A CHRISTIAN.

Nobody can really BE a Christian unless they're YOUR kind, can they?

I vote if you can't say something nice don't say it at all!

I second that motion Bonkers, ;)

Smartii

You all are twisting my words or they did not come out how I ment them. I am by far the last person that should be preaching. I belive in GOD YES! However catch my hand in something and I will curse using words you may have never heard before. I do not go to church every sunday.

I mearly ment that every one believes in a GOD or NOT a GOD.

They might believe in science buddah muslim or what ever else there is.

I am not looking for a fight! I was just asking because there seemed to be a heated debate in about post about why does Christian clowning have to do with pushing my beliefs.

It says on the Title of this link FOOLS For Christ. Maybe my words came out wrong. I never said I was smart. If I was I would know how to support my family without struggling.

I came to clown forum to learn and exchange ideas but I feel like I am being pushed out. If you dont want to share your talent then dont

Hi there Bonkers,

I'm sorry, but it just looked to me as though you were having a go and it made me very sad. If I'm wrong then I apologise as for changing my name Salvo is the name I've had since 1974 and no matter what I might say whether it be good or bad. I don't intend to change my name now or in the future. Take care and most of all please keep sharing on here and with others in the general community.

Yours in Service.

Salvo.

I am sorry to Salvo. I was just asking why would you click on a link that says it is about
"CHRISTIAN clowning and Clown Ministry" That is all I was asking beacuse one of the other post I found very offensive that people were on here saying the things they were in this link. I am sorry if I came out wrong. But on person Has even gone to the point to attack me personal through my website AGAIN!

Ok I taped myself saying "something nice" and listened to it several times. I checked it against the pronunciation guides in Websters and I called my third grade english teacher just to make sure I was saying it right. So Im sure I can say "something nice" correctly which if I am understanding the requirements does quallify me to say "anything at all".Although I dont see what the big deal is. There are lots of funnier things to say.

I like to say "Bumble bee" over and over really fast.
Rumplestiskin, pumpernikle, antidisestablishmentarianism, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, allun....allim....aallyou....uhm... tin foil.

Just to name a few.

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

Rubber baby-buggy bumpers.

Fiddlesticks (I particularly like saying fiddlesticks).

See? Not only can Boubo and I say "something nice", we can say a LOT of other fun stuff, too.

That certainly doesn't mean those are the ONLY things we can say.

instead it seems like a couple people are wanting to attack people on the forum for saying what you think. I vote if you can't say something nice don't say it at all!... I am not trying to push buttons I thought we were all adults and I could ask a question. BUT I guess you are right Maybe I should not talk at all.

NO ONE is attacking anyone for saying what they think. People got called out because they believe that having a religious belief is license for them to try to convert other people.

Look, some people don't like phrases like "God Bless You" when they sneeze. They don't like the yearly arguments about Christmas trees or manger scenes on the lawn of town hall.

Why? Because there's a BIG difference between being free to HAVE a personal faith and believing that said faith requires you to discriminate against those who do not agree. When someone repeatedly offers "trust in god" or "there's only one way to salvation" or whatever, they are DISCRIMINATING against those who don't want such distinctions being made on a public Forum. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you can't say anything without adding your religious lingo, keep it to yourself. How's that?

I'm not trying to force anyone out Bonkers and I feel I did answer your question about why I would click on a link that said Christian clowning I am interested in all learning, and you never know where you might find a gem.

I found myself possibly interpreting your words incorrectly, as I have tried to state on many occasions I have no problem with ones personal faith. but I thought possibly a discussion on why I believe in Jesus but not god may show I have considered my arguments before deciding on Aethiesm, not just chosen it to be macho.

I may have got carried away responding to Tyanbe's attack. It was not my intention to hijack your thread but simply to illustrate that aethiests can have read religious texts and come to their own conclusions, and to answer why I read every forum on the site. I don't do magic but I read the forums on that too, You never know when you apply a magic principle to a non magic situation. I apply that rule to every topic I look at.

Why only the other day I was watching a DIY show (DIY SOS - UK types) and one of the builders started doing Chapeaugraphy with a standard felt fedora I had always had an interest in bringing back lost music hall/vaudeville arts but always thought you could only do it with a felt ring, and I like my props to be incidental. I've already started watching as much footage on Chapeaugraphy as I can and I'm trying to see how I could fit more imromptu humour with my hat into my clowning.

I came to this forum with the same belief, I'm not interested in Ministry or Church but that doesn't mean a discussion that occurs here may not set of a chain of events in my head that leads to me becoming a better clown.

Maybe if i'd elaborated this much in the first place we could have avoided some of the misunderstanding.

Smartii

Ps on a side note welcome to the forum Salvo It's nice to see you here and I hope to learn once more from your years of experience.

THank you ...............................

Let's start over

My name is Bonkers what is your's

My Name is Smartii, Smartii Pants, I'm named after my Father Under ...

Let me guess your mothers name is Hot? And you have a cousin named Cargo.

Hi Boubo, No they weren't but with your permission I'll add that to all my introductions in future :)

Permission granted lol. But I cant garuntee its not stolen merchandise. All my best stuff is stolen so if it was funny it probably is too.

THank you ...............................

Let's start over

My name is Bonkers what is your's

My name is Salvo both in Clown and in Private :-)

My name is Glupi. Glupi Manekina. It means "dumb doll" or "silly puppet" in Polish.

My real name is 19-20-5-22-5.

I'm a bottle-blonde who loves movies, shopping and walks on the beach! (Not, sometimes, not usually and REALLY).

This VD, I went to a nice shop and bought myself a card. Last VD, it was antibiotics and bed-rest.

Nice to meet you!

That's cute. I like it.

HG, that would be because Beezer was being an idiot. Nothing rocket-sciency about that.

Let me guess your mothers name is Hot? And you have a cousin named Cargo.
So.... Is the baby's name droopy or stinky?

We keep our personal jihad out of play when it comes to clowning. Try it sometime.

Jihadist Clown. Hmmmm..... interesting character concept.

(Though, I suppose Jeff Dunham has sort of already done that in puppetry with Achmed.)

Smarti, I would like to respectfully point out that many Christians -- myself included -- see no conflict between science and their beliefs.

I personally feel that if we treated religion AS a "science" things would be different.
Allow me to clarify... when I say to treat religion as a science I mean in the sense that we should be constantly questioning it, exploring it, researching it, and finding ways to improve upon it as we do with science. Science continues to change as we gain knowledge and as a result it reflects the time in which it is present. It is something that does not remain stagnant (well at least not for very long -there have been some notable "unenlightened" eras of science of course) and therefore does not rely on the dated ideas of the past.

WE are a brother hood of clowns wheather we are Christian, Buddast, muslim or what ever.

Oooooo....a troupe of Hare Khrisna Clowns! Can we get a subforum for that?

And now that I've made that last statement I shall return to the previous discussion of "starting over..."

Hello dear clowny friends! I'm Prose the clown! And a Prose by any other name would naturally still smell like greasepaint... (I'm currently out of my signature cotton candy body spray so eau d' greasepaint will have to do for now *shrugs*.)

I NEVER said I believe in science... where did you get that idea?

I disbelieve in and formally renounce "Science." That electron stuff is a bunch of imaginative hooey. Who came up with that crap: Einstein? Suuuure, Al, something has to hold the world together and make it click. Let's call it "electrons!" Really! The stuff some people will make up just to have a belief that they can grasp onto in their insecure uncertainty. (Shakes head.)

I disbelieve in and formally renounce "Science." That electron stuff is a bunch of imaginative hooey. Who came up with that crap: Einstein? Suuuure, Al, something has to hold the world together and make it click. Let's call it "electrons!" Really! The stuff some people will make up just to have a belief that they can grasp onto in their insecure uncertainty. (Shakes head.)

I mean, seriously, it's The Force that holds things together. Someone wasn't paying attention to Yoda...

I do not go to church every sunday.

Weeeelllll, that surely makes you a good agnostic, then. What are you doing in this forum?!

I am not looking for a fight!

Bops Bonkers in the nose. "Wanna do somethin' about it, Buddy?"

I never said I was smart.

Don't worry, we'd never accuse you of it! :-P

I disbelieve in and formally renounce "Science." That electron stuff is a bunch of imaginative hooey. Who came up with that crap: Einstein? Suuuure, Al, something has to hold the world together and make it click. Let's call it "electrons!" Really! The stuff some people will make up just to have a belief that they can grasp onto in their insecure uncertainty. (Shakes head.)

Actually Einstein came up with theories on the atom based upon the much earlier work by [/URL]Antoine Lavoisier who discovered the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_conservation_of_mass"]law of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Lavoisier)conservation mass and defined an element as a basic substance that could not be further broken down by the methods of chemistry.

*Starts a fight about science to confuse people further and runs away

More scientific zealotry..... ack!

The original question, "Why did you click on Christian link?"; I do to watch the wrecks and pileups. It is my alternative to NASCAR, which I abhor...

I mean, seriously, it's The Force that holds things together. Someone wasn't paying attention to Yoda...

We need a Jedi Clown forum! My wife might actually become interested if we did. . .

Says to storm trooper: These aren't the clowns you're looking for...

Jesus Heals a Crippled Woman on the Sabbath

10 On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” 13 Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

14 Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue leader said to the people, “There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath.”

15 The Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Doesn’t each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16 Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?”

17 When he said this, all his opponents were humiliated, but the people were delighted with all the wonderful things he was doing.

Luke 13: 10-17

We are forgetting what we are talking about here. Several people claim to be Christians here. Some claim to be working for the Church. The Scriptures are supposed to be our guide when we are doing anything. Our Christianity is not something that is supposed to be set aside for anything. Christ is reminding the Pharasies of this in this scripture. Even if we doing a birthday party and not evangelising we are still supposed to operate as Christ would want us to. The same also goes for Internet Forums.

We are supposed to be nice to one another and build each other up. Even if you think someone is wrong you are not supposed to call them names. You can in love point out the error of their ways. Like the Pharasies who wanted someone to suffer an extra day so that a rule was not broken, some on this site beleive they can sit in judgement of everyone. They can but they cannot also claim to be a mature Christian.

You cannot claim that preserving the "Art of Clowning" lets you call people talentless or frauds or what ever. You have a right as an American to be rude as you want to be. That is seperate from Christian beleifs. A Christian that swears or bullies people may simply be somone that is at the begining of their walk with Christ. They may be deeply wounded from personal experinces that need to heal. Only God fully knows their trails and tribulations.

If we are claiming to be Christians we must remeber two things. First we are supposed to be expressing love. Clowns are supposed to expressing Humor. These two over lap much of the time.

The second thing we have to remeber is that not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a mature Christian. Some people who have recently been saved feel they have the right to bully people. We have to pray thet Holy Spirit touches their hearts and shows them a better way.

The second thing we have to remeber is that not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a mature Christian. Some people who have recently been saved feel they have the right to bully people. We have to pray thet Holy Spirit touches their hearts and shows them a better way.

So now Zeeppo is not only the arbiter of who is or is not "saved" by his God, he's also Quality Control for the already-converted.

Why didn't you bother READING the title of this thread, or ANY of the posts here? The thread was directed at people who think NOTHING like you. This thread was not created for you to post a mini Bible study.

If you're so interested in communicating your sincere, heartfelt religious beliefs and concerns with your friends, there's a "Private Message" function for that.

That's not "bullying", that's just asking you nicely to keep your opinions about things other than clowning private or in the off-topic sub-forum called "Clown Cafe".

Everything I have posted in response to you and your fellow preachers has been with the expressed intent to direct our attention to CLOWNING and what your religion, or ANY religion, has ANYTHING to contribute TO clowning.

You've decided that any opportunity to "spread the gospel" is more important than bringing anything useful to the table. You just said so, in so many words.

I wonder what the official position of the owners and administrators of the Forum is concerning such disregard for the rules?

First off I rest my case.

Secondly this is the Religous portion of the Forum. If Scriptures offend you then you should stick to other parts of the Forum.

And frankly this thread is about Judgement. This scripture is about judgement. And it about God being the only worthy judge. You were not judged in my post. You were not even mentioned.

If you want to infer that you are one of the imature Christians on the forum that is between you and God. For all i know you are being disagreeable as a joke or to blow off steam from your regular life.

And if you wanted to have a private conversation about this you could have messaged me as well.

I do hope I don't upset or offend anyone with what I've got to say this time. For although I am a Christian myself, I feel it is such a shame when another Clown has to have a go at another :-( I feel it would be far better to try and help each other to become better Clowns (and dare I say better Christians too) in whatever field we may chose to channel our energy. How about it folks, and if not can you could PLEASE tell me if it is possible to cease getting messages from a possible thread as I joined the Clown Forum to see what I can learn about this wonderful profession of ours, not to see Clowns having a go at another.

Now....does anyone have anything to share about Christian clowning?.....Anyone?....Ok, I will wait for the next thread to learn from. Because I learned alot on this thread....but it had absolutely nothing to do with Christian clowning or sharing the gospel through the art of clowning. Character, yes.....clowning...no.

A Bishop read the Bible
for his parishioners to hear.
He read it rather gleefully
while grinning ear to ear
Until he spied a sentence
and it made his face turn red;
he quickly closed the Bible
and right from the pulpit fled.

The congregation wondered
at just why he left them thus
until the deacon said aloud
"here's why he made such fuss;
He was reading about Heaven
and enjoyed it very well
till the next verse, he discovered,
sent all hypocrites to Hell!"

Do you want to make it funny while performing for your church?
Just remember one good rule and they'll be laughing till it hurts.
Make the people feel, each one, like they are living as they ought
And be sure to make them feel it's someone else that's getting caught!

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

Hmmm,
I learned it different.
God grant me the serinety to accept the things I cannot change.
the courage tto change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know where to hide the bodies.

We are supposed to be nice to one another....

"Nice" comes from a root word which means "ignorant." We're supposed to be kind, merciful, just, charitable, and all sorts of other good things. But "nice" isn't necessarily one of them. Jesus was often "not nice" in his human interactions.

The second thing we have to remeber is that not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a mature Christian. Some people who have recently been saved feel they have the right to bully people. We have to pray thet Holy Spirit touches their hearts and shows them a better way.

While one might also argue that neither can YOU be the arbitrator of these things, at least I'll give ya that you seem to understand that "salvation" isn't the end all - be all, and that growth in holiness and depth of relationship with Christ (which often comes in our encounters with others in whom we are called to see Christ, also) is crucial as a furtherance of such claimed salvation.

Didn't mean to further the debate too much, btw. Sorry if that did. I was merely catching up on thread reading and didn't realize what I was responding to was a week old already.

Didn't mean to further the debate too much, btw. Sorry if that did. I was merely catching up on thread reading and didn't realize what I was responding to was a week old already.

I'm gonna start calling you jozo..