okay I've started this post about three times just trying to figer out to to reply because its such a compilcated question...

I think that with all the hate in the world against other people such as; Blacks, Whites, Jews, Gays Lesbians and people of other colour and/or race. We should help and support each other.

If someone wants to be an evil clown then so be it. But your website is showing a great hate of other clowns. Somthing I am very much against. I've expressed my view point and dont really want to argue about anything :) Now its Friday night and I'm off :) goodnight.

I know that there are clowns that provide adult entertainment. And if your a customer of certain type establishments, you know what kind of entertainment to expect.

I respect what you're trying to do and yes there are bad stereo types especially in the movies.

I have never had a problem with a "bad" clown. I checked your website and I think even in competiton some rules have changed, and by some I've heard you would not be dressed approp. that is why we stress supporting each other and helping were we can. A Well know clown once said he was told he could not wear a pink wig, he won nationals that years, rules are a quide not written in stone. :D

Hatred is a very strong word! I am not so much against different clown characters, but those that represent themselves in shameful behavior...primarily in the attendance of children. If is hard enough for parents to raise their children in a good environment, especially when the child asks why a clown was grabbing his private parts. I would like to think that clowning and its art, are the last frontier of wholesome entertainment. If I want my kids to see sarcastic trash, then I would let them watch the prime time sitcoms!

By the way lady clowns, thank you for your response! It is much appreciated! Unfortunately, we on the west coast our currently besieged with this new trend of the Hollywood-type "shock" clown! They can be found at a kid's matinee, the grocery store, or even the L.A. Marathon! I feel it is my moral obligation to remind them that our children need not grow up too fast! God Bless :D

ah I didnt know that 'evil' clowns perfore for children. I would agre wth old teenagers (16+) but not anything under. The only time I'd dress like an evil clown wouldbe for halloween but I wouldnt grab my areas in front of little children.

I my school we ave two small sisters (5 and 7) and I would never ever even think of doing aything like that in front of them. 17 + should be an aceptble age nothing less....

We should have a chat about this on Sunday or even thursday night Live Chat!

Welcome red clown Fred! Please join us for our chat session some time. Sunday afternoon, around 2pm eastern, And all day on thursday.

I agree with Red Clown

I joined a coulrephoba website to learn how to do my job better.My co. specializes in working with kids who are scared of clowns

I learned that clowns who specifically act and look evil can trigger fear and phobias in all ages that can be embarrassing and debilitating for life.

it is my opinion that some occupations make you a role model--men and women of the cloth,teachers,police officers, and clowns

The moral vacuum that causes some people to use these platforms to curse and belittle has the potential to cause alot of damage

Almost all members of this site want to help their fellow man and find it hard to understand the above view.I don't think Red hates his fellow clowns,I think he objects to their behavior and the danger they represent.

Ok,after writing the above,I've taken time to read the guestbook postings and go to the sites of the "evil' clowns.As long as groups like that market to adults,promote themselves to adults,and to very specific audiences who crave the irony of the monster clown--that's show-biz.It's not my cup of apple juice,it kind of makes my stomach queasy,but so does bungee jumping.As for politics--that does not compute--doesn't fit into the equation.

my verdict is out,keep an eye out

It also depends n your view of 'evil'. For example a gay clown at Pride could offend heay Christains...just as a hevay Christain clown would offend a gay man or women.

Methinks its not all black and white. 8O

to me,evil behavior is when the person hurts a kid,not accidentally,but with a decision that could be prevented

it seems to me that the clowns on reds site are of a particular genre---maybe red is into some schtick too--both sides seem to have their constituency

Yes Shady_Lamps, while some might be offended in the scenarios you've decribed, those events are usually attended by willing participants. Some of the clowns I deal with, roam the streets, raisng havoc for some self-indulging agenda, imposing their evil intentions on innocent bystanders. It is hard to shield a child from this behavior as you the parent are entering a grocery store, only to be confronted by one of these clowns. I imagine even being approached by a homeless begger is less traumatic. At least you know what's coming! When I am in costume and perform for children, I certainly don't discuss my religious affiliations with them. Just as you for example, would not talk with children about your sexual preference when entertaining them. I have no problem with what people do in their private lifes, but for me personally, I don't like how people use clowns publicy in a deviant way! Kinda like a police officer beating on someone simply because they are in uniform. Some may think I'm a little old school, but that's the way it goes! Some of those "old schools" made for great education! Never-the-less, God loves all clowns, the good and the bad. I being a man and a sinner, will show my darker side when combatting this new generation of clowns!

Rainbow, thanks for the comments! You hit it right on the head! These antics CAN be prevented! But they are actually perpetrated with the intent of "shocking" and "scaring" children, some even to tears. And I'm not talking haunted houses, but beyond that circle! I'm not sure what you mean concerning constituents and so forth, but I find I have better dialog with some of these characters when I try to reason where they are coming from. They usually dismiss you unless you turn up the heat! At the very least I let them know that some of the public is offended by their actions! I'm sure others are of mine, but I don't mind hearing so! I think my site www.clownconceptual.com goes into a little detail on our freedoms! Take care fellow clown!

Red--I agree with you that there are evil people out there who use the motif of clowns to hurt people,i also totally get what you mean when you say that on the west coast they don't like clowns and everyone from writers to moviemakers look for ways to dis them,I lived out there,i know.

But the very specific people on your website seem to be entertainers who make it very clear what they are doing--when you go into a haunted house--c'mon,duh.

if there is a certain venue which advertises the evil clown schtick as part of its draw--I am certainly not going and neither should anyone else who is sensitive

You have your constituency--the all american fight against the evil liberals(yep I would say that most sources that present the clown countenance as vile tend that way) utilizing the clown countenance to draw attention and illustrate the fight.

But being the devils advocate for a minute (is there anyone around here who even remotely resembles the devil,certainly not)---a phenominon that will probably never go away is humans focussing on the clown as a source of working thru fear.We saw this on Star Trek Voyager with an episode where michael Mckeon played the evil clown which soaked up all the fears and came to life. many people who have been scared by IT watch it over and over and collect and post pictures of pennywise.

As long as those people on yout site keep what they are doing above board and don't use profanity with kids--its just another venue,you can't stop it,people want it(not me tho)

If the shop hires these clowns then people must want them in their shop / outside their shop. And anyway a little scare isnt all bad. Plus lets ot get into the whole 'your gay I'm gay' or 'you poof I' poof' kinda thing ..... it gets old..

Evil Clowns are better are Halloween, people should have a choice as to see them.

Shady Lamps, your lamp is too shady! If you don't like me or what I stand for then just say it! I'm a big clown! And if you don't like my version of right, say that too! Leave it in my Guestbook! I do and will listen to all points of view! You are using negative overtones but then skirt around the issue! My agenda is straight up and in front...page one! Some might not like my way or view and I respect that! Even these "shock" clowns I admire to a certain degree. Most are a talented brew, but it seems like their best entertaining qualities are left out when they reduce their behavior to scaring, shouting, and growling! I'm sorry, but I'll take classical over rap any day of the week! Many of these Haunted Houses may employ those type of clowns, but I have personally watched them antagonise customers in the haunted house parking lot, even terrorizing and chasing them to their cars. We know there is a wide range of this "clown fear" out there, and these clowns exploit that! I feel if you sense someone is extremely apprehensive about you approaching them, you back off. And because it's a clown, everyone laughs as if all is okay! Imagine you as a child being told by your parents to sit on your perverted Uncle's lap and telling you it's okay as he is putting his hands down your pants! "Why honey, it's alright, why he's your Uncle"! Think about it...as a child now! The new world of expressionism has no morality as its basis! For those that make their clown living solely on those "scare" and "shock" ideals, is a downgrade from the art in it's true form! As far as the "your gay I'm gay" comment, it appears to be a pressing issue with YOU, not me! On a lighter note, some of your fellow natives "U2" will be playing here in a couple of weeks. I enjoy their music! Nice chatting with you! Red Clown Fred

By the way, responding to your comment [I think that with all the hate in the world against other people such as; Blacks, Whites, Jews, Gays Lesbians and people of other colour and/or race. We should help and support each other] What do you say we extend that to include those with a different political platform than your own...You game? :wink:

Valid point on the Haunted Houses, but as I mentioned to Shady, many of these clowns are way too extreme, chasing crying kids into harms way, into parking lots and free flowing traffic. Have you ever been so scared that you start running (example attacking bees or dogs) and haven't a clue how you ended up half a block from where you started! THAT is terror! Maybe it's a left coast thing again! Additionally, most Haunted Houses do not advertise what's inside, let alone what might be outside tormenting you as you contemplate even the idea of entering! Never-the-less, thanks for your feedback! Red Clown Fred :)

I would completely agree with you that if any of those people do ANYTHING aggressive against a terrified person--touching,chasing,using foul language,specifically trying to harrass or touch a minor--I would be really surprised,judging by their websites because they seem to be actors sincerely needing gigs and that would be a good way to get yourself and your client sued.

As for not knowing what is in a haunted house--u r right,many parents stupidly take their kids to one not understanding how traumatic it is,but does that mean they must cease to exist? Any ding dong knows there is going to be a Krazy Klown in a haunted house.I would never go in one,but I know people who work thru their fears by going to them,and the shock clowns are part of it

Do you remember when the big quake happened? i worked at universal studios and what did they come up with? An earthquake ride. My friends and I were sick just thinking about it,but is it popular? yes!

As long as those people are within reason and above board they have a place. BUT if they do not toe the line--you'll be there to stop them from going too far!!!

My lamp is too shady thats a new one! :roll:

I love a litte scare and its an emotion we should all get in touch with. To a certain degree Evil Clowns can scare, but to scare a child spit-less is out of bounds.

I juggle heads and dress in dark clothes at Halloween I dnt approch the children I just stand and juggle some bloody heads. I find that just standing scares them more then approching them. Therefore if they want to drop a penny or two into a hallow head they can.

Can we please get away from the whole gay issue. Its not there so lets not talk about it any further.

Come on I'm 14 I have no idea what a potical level or whatever it is.

Hey Rainbow, Where did you get the trackless train, and is that street legal? It looks like a wonderful clowning device!

But now that I'm thinking about it, there's the insurance issue!

One time a clown i knew was performing at a party in a park and some thug stole a women's purse. My friend used to be a track star, so he chased the guy down and tackled him. A good deed right? The thug got hurt and sued my clown friend and won. My friend had to pay him his suddenly exorbitant medical bills!

Well, I would like to know more about the train if you wish to speak about it! Thanks R.C.F.

I think that is very wrong that your friend was sued for being a good samaritan. isn't there a law in every state that you are allowed to make a citizen's arrest if you see a felony committed in your presence?

About the train call my associate kim @ abc events 281 354 6001 for info

or ask me some specific questions and I will relay the answers

Coulrephoba has seriously cost me a mountain of missed jobs.
One Hallo'Ween a juggling party I had pencilled in at a local creche was cancelled because the Stephen King feature 'IT' had been played the night before & people were concerned that I might have alterior motives, such as luring the children into sewers etc.

Sounds ludicrous of course, but it just illustrates the negative light us hard-working clowns have been shown in in this day and age.

Buntyman.

buntyman--you did not have to lose that job!!

For a performer who has motivation to make money in this business--it is essential to have alternatives to clowns

A buzz word is "festive dressed' buntyman

or 'soft look" buntyman

or 'colorful" buntyman

or "party guy" buntyman
The key being to dress colorfully maybe a colorful hat but little or no make up

In some cases not even colorful clothes and no hat,just very professional


coulrephobia is here to stay,and it is becoming more and more portrayed in the media--
examples--Las vegas,the Apprentice,Am Ex commercial,CSI,Monk to name a few

You can make good money and make some people very happy by offering alternatives to a clown

Well I guess each situation is unique, but there may have been little Buntyman could do! Finding out last minute is sometimes not enough to make corrections. Diversifying is an alternative, but I challenge the whole idea about coulrophobia is here to stay. While that may be true, largely because of the media influence, to so easily suggest an alternative to clowning is sidestepping the issue. Example: There is a thief stealing valuables on my street. If I let him have his way he will eventually move on! What does that accomplish? He robs me and my neighbors, has no opposition, and goes on to steal on the next street! Talented, professional clowns need to be more vocal to counterbalance this new generation that gravitates towards individuals who want to scare and cause trouble, and just happen to do so in a clown outfit! That's not true clowning as far as I'm concerned! Curious on everyone's take on this? R.C.F.

I guess Ihave to speak on this matter
Each year I work at a farm that has a haunted house and they hire a clown to be in it to scare people while I am outside making them laugh
This clown never leaves the house with make up on and in his own words he was hired to scare people who want to be scared not the ones who dont and he would never scare someone for the fun of it and dont care for clowns who do it
Isort of have to respect him for that he does his job in the contex of what he was hired to do
So maybe there is some good evil clowns but Ihave to agree that there are some that have to go

I think we may be in the wrong area so i am going to start a new topic in forum--see you there

Yes Jams! What do you say we start with thisso-called Clown Forum member called name withheld by management
What type of a name is that? I feel this individual is nothing but a preverted soul trying to rile up those that take Clowning and its tradition seriously! Red Clown Fred

I dont think we should we pointing out certain people. Afterall we could point out anyone (even you!) and make judgments about you. So lets not.

I dont think we should we pointing out certain people. Afterall we could point out anyone (even you!) and make judgments about you. So lets not.

Shady lamps:
Thank you, you have shown wisdom above your age!

I am saying this only once. Regardless of feelings toward certain members, name dropping, antagonistic, and derogatory comments toward other members will not be tolerated. Period.

Subject closed, We're clowns, and supposed to be funny! So for the sake of harmony, lets drop it. I am as much against evil, or scary clowns as the next person. But bickering and name calling only lowers those of us who respect tradional clowning down to their level.
In others, rise above it, and SHINE!