I've a friend who would have you think Criss Angel is a voodoo (for those of you who are picturing some cliche' B-Rated movie about black magic - you should research the origin of voodoo)...rambling...

Anyway! She was going on about the illusion of Angel walking through glass and all. In an attempt to shut her up, I dug into my storage and brought out the trusty "Through the looking glass" to show her (and the park full of people) how the trick is done.

FYI - doing random acts of magic gives you a great opportunity to hand out business information which leads to business opportunities.

As it stands, it looks like a full time gig is going to come of it. A local producer has been toying with the idea of doing a Val Valentino sort of show. Eight shows a month (Friday/Saturday) which is nice. The pay isn't great, which isn't so nice ($1250/month - 12 months).

I'm not sure I'm in love with the concept of the show, but an extra pay check for weekend work will certainly help with the baby expenses. Wrestling with the idea and ideally, I'd like to only work with some of my older props (initially I have to supply my own props - also sucky, but would like to think I have half a years worth at least) like The Looking Glass, Palanquin, Mismade Girl, etc...

I've never cared much about people knowing how my magic is accomplished but also realize some others rely on self working stuff so I've not agreed to do the gig yet. I figure if I dont, someone else will - so why not cash in?

Input from magic types here?

I'm not familiar with Val Valintino and don't think much of Angel but 1250 a month for 8 days work isn't bad. Is this doing magic shows or showing how tricks are done? If it is showing how tricks are done I don't agree with unless you stick with the very basic like the paddle move etc.

You may know Val Valintino better as The Masked Magician.

Part of the shows are indeed revealing some illusions. In short, I do a 30-45 minute stage show and at the end the audience is taught a magic trick. Sometimes it will be a sleight while other times a prop is revealed for examination while giving a walk-through of the magic.

I'd like to stick to old magic or stuff that isn't used much today (but who knows when they'll make a return?). From a realistic stand, anyone can order these things from any one of the dozens of magic supply companies online, so like the trick itself; the selling point to the exposure seems to be in how it is presented.

So, you will be paid to expose marketed effects that people make their living on?

That anyone with internet access and knowledge of YouTube or Expert Village can find on their own anyway.

Admittedly, I've always been one to teach some magic to anyone wanting to learn. I am a working professional and have never had complications from other people knowing the same tricks that I perform. Everyone that I've ever shown a trick to (regardless on if they went on to do it for pals or left it alone after) appreciates the skill of the presentation once the cat is out of the bag.

We're not in the dark ages anymore and I think the argument that the "common folk" shouldn't be allowed to see inside of our art isn't valid today. The internet houses hundreds of magic supply stores that anyone can buy from as long as they have a valid credit card. To think that we're an esoteric order is archaic. How many people here actually apprenticed under a magician before buying their first prop?

Magic conventions and clown camps do the exact same thing every day - expose magic for a fee to people interested in learning them. Many people can't afford to pay the big tuition fees to go to these camps or conventions and others can't leave their families for extended times for one reason or another.

I've still not made my mind up one way or another about the job, but bottom line is that if you're (you - general, not specific) a magician that is counting on the secret of the trick alone - you're not going to make it long term in the field.

Information wants to be free. Google makes it so. Someone other than search engine shareholders may as well proft from it...

It sounds like a chance to make some good money and a great chance to grow your business. But should you expose secrets to magic tricks? I say yes, go for it. You can make money without having to be gone all the time and miss out on your baby growing up. I missed a lot of my oldest daughter's first years (she is 3 now) because I was out working all the time.

Magic is usually enjoyed most by kids anyways. Adults don't seem to enjoy the magic; they only want to see how it is done.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Darrell

I have been practicing the art of magic since I was 7 yrs old and never reveal the secrets of the illusions I perform. It has always been a matter of honor for me. To respect those that came before who keep to the magician's code. Good luck with your endeavors.

Magic is usually enjoyed most by kids anyways. Adults don't seem to enjoy the magic; they only want to see how it is done.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Darrell

Them's fighting words according to my wife. I have to deal with major pouting if my wife catches the trick behind a trick.

I have been practicing the art of magic since I was 7 yrs old and never reveal the secrets of the illusions I perform. It has always been a matter of honor for me. To respect those that came before who keep to the magician's code. Good luck with your endeavors.


The problem here is that the "magician's code" is farcical. Most magicians today tout the secretive code simply because they saw a magician on television or stage telling them that it is suppose to be that way. This code is something spawned out of economics rather than tradition. It is rare that people learn the history of their profession anymore - it seems to be true with magicians as well.

Magicians from all eras have exposed the secrets of magic. Houdini exposed the secrets to some of his escapes in violation of the magic community’s code of ethics. He left his competition behind and often exposed their methods as he moved on to more sensational escapes. He also give away magic secrets to kids and wrote a newspaper series called Red Magic that gave directions on how to perform tricks.

Late in his career he also exposed psychics with fervor. Psychics of old aren't much different than the mentalists of today.

Penn & Teller have built shows around the exposure of illusions.

Criss Angel has shorts in many of his Mindfreak show that show the workings of various tricks and gimmicks.

Val Valentino performed as the masked magician giving away all sorts of "secrets"

Traditionally, exposure is a good thing in the long run. It makes people invent (or re-invent) illusions/gimmicks rather than performing the same old tricks every time they suit up.

... and again...

Presentation and delivery is more important than the mechanics. Blendo was on the big screen in Night at the Museum. People still use thumb tips every day without getting caught because they switch it up. Use a lit cigarette in place of your silks, and people don't associate the trick. The same is true for D'lites - a few years ago they were on toy store shelves - I've used a new set until the batteries died without getting called on them.

You can't rely on your gimmick to mesmerize your audience if your delivery is weak or your patter stale.

I don't see McDonalds giving out their "Special Sauce" recipe nor the BBQ place telling the family's secret recipe. Giving away your secrets is slowly killing your business. Once they know your stuff they have no more use for you. Of course there is the out that they are paying to see the show and you are being paid to do it so in the long run if you play with enough words you are selling the secrets, not giving them away

Just my opinion for what it is worth. To me it is worth my job but to others it isn't worth anything it seems.

To me it seems as though you feel as though magic is nothing more than another gimmick and not really a profession, yet, many people make their livelihood on this art. As another fellow magician pointed out, it is the mystery that makes the magic, when you expose the mystery you make magic boring and the wonder and mystery is gone.

The reason for not exposing a secret isn't because some magician said it shouldn't be so as much as the recognition that by exposing the effect you become less of a magician, because the magic is no longer there, the mystery becomes empty.

At heart, just like clowning, we enjoy living in a world of imagination, if even temporarily and magic brings that to the fore, creates a sense of wonder no matter how old you are. Granted, a lot of people are interested in wanting to know how something was done, but the majority are content to be entertained to be taken up in that sense of wonder. But once you remove that by showing how it's done, it takes away so much of what magic is.

Magic is an art, and though I agree that presentation is important that does not mean that it is right to expose something because you can. If anything I would think respect for the art would make you feel more obligated to preserve the secret than to share it with others. And the reason is, quite simply because the secret is part of the art and the art becomes mundane and, for lack of a better word, pedestrian when this secret, which is integral to the magic, is exposed.

Yes, exposure happens, and if it is done by a professional magician it's purpose is to give someone a place to start, but 9 times out of 10 those on youtube or google or anywhere else expose the effect because they can, because they know how to do it and want to share it with others. In my opinion, those people are not those who really recognize magic as an art, but another "gimmick" something that is not really important, just something else to do.

The great magicians see magic as an art, they don't go around exposing everything but appreciate that art and work to improve it. People like Lance Burton and Gary Darwin come to mind.

I don't know, I know you don't agree but I just thought I would share my long .02

Take it for what it's worth.

I will show people basic tricks like the ones you find in a magic kit at wal mart but the ones I use to sell myself I keep secret
Knowing how a trick is done doent stop me from enjoying another magicians show I enjoy watching how he delivers the trick and the patter thats goes with it it makes it more enjoying for me

I will quite happily teach anybody who asks me, how I do any of my effects. It costs them £20 a time to see.

£20 pounds is a lot of money to me. It would pay for a night of drinks in the pub or if I shop carefully, a whole weeks worth of food. When street performing, I am often asked to show how I do things, I expect any magician with a modicum of talent can relate to this.

I always offer a private a one to one tutorial for a fee of £20. I will I show them how the trick works, I also promise to give them exactly the coaching they need so they can walk off and pull that stunt to all their friends and familly.

I am flattered when people pay me to teach them something. It shows I have really entertained and inspired them. I have no qualms about selling my secrets. Also I might point out, some of those secrets are litterally mine. Little slights that I developed my self. Things that as far as I know, no other magician uses. I need to eat too. I go to the magic shop and pay £15 for a book containing 80 tricks. I do not see why a magic shop should have a monopolly on selling secrets.

I do not like people giving away magic secrets to the lay people, but most lay people know a card trick themselves. Most kids from the age of about 7 can do a card trick. Most of the teens I meet, know about the existance of thumb tips.

This can be worked to your advantage. I often will "accidently" expose a thumb during the course of an effect. Whilst actually using a pull or holdout. Then I stear the conversation into some kind of challenge or wager. They are so sure they know what your up to. It just remains up to me to decide how much I feel they can loose.

Jollywell was talking about anyone who wanted to see magic on the internet could but if they where willing to take the time to look it up than they are interested in magic. so just showing anyone how the trick is done that,s not interested for the sake of entertaining but just finding out the secret i would,nt show them.

The problem here is that the "magician's code" is farcical. Most magicians today tout the secretive code simply because they saw a magician on television or stage telling them that it is suppose to be that way. This code is something spawned out of economics rather than tradition. It is rare that people learn the history of their profession anymore - it seems to be true with magicians as well.

Magicians from all eras have exposed the secrets of magic. Houdini exposed the secrets to some of his escapes in violation of the magic community’s code of ethics. He left his competition behind and often exposed their methods as he moved on to more sensational escapes. He also give away magic secrets to kids and wrote a newspaper series called Red Magic that gave directions on how to perform tricks.

Late in his career he also exposed psychics with fervor. Psychics of old aren't much different than the mentalists of today.

Penn & Teller have built shows around the exposure of illusions.

Criss Angel has shorts in many of his Mindfreak show that show the workings of various tricks and gimmicks.

Val Valentino performed as the masked magician giving away all sorts of "secrets"

Traditionally, exposure is a good thing in the long run. It makes people invent (or re-invent) illusions/gimmicks rather than performing the same old tricks every time they suit up.

... and again...

Presentation and delivery is more important than the mechanics. Blendo was on the big screen in Night at the Museum. People still use thumb tips every day without getting caught because they switch it up. Use a lit cigarette in place of your silks, and people don't associate the trick. The same is true for D'lites - a few years ago they were on toy store shelves - I've used a new set until the batteries died without getting called on them.

You can't rely on your gimmick to mesmerize your audience if your delivery is weak or your patter stale.
I agree with you because even though I know how a trick is done i still enjoy watching a magician perform like the metaphorsis trick it,s still amazing of how quick some one can change places with each other

My initial reaction is to wrinkle my nose and tell you don't do it. Just because someone else is willing to sell out does not mean you get a pass when you do so.

That said, there are different versions of a lot of tricks out there. If you pick out the more cumbersome versions to expose, then you could actually create more of a sense of wonder for people who thought they knew the secret.

Example: I love rope magic. I especially love cut and restored rope tricks. If I were to expose this, I would use the method that employs an extra loop of rope. This is the version that was printed in the first practical manual on magic in the English language: Hocus Pocus Junior. Result is that I have taught a practical and functional way to do a trick that is seldom used anymore (at least as far as I have seen). So, when people next watch a good C&R trick, they may well be even more amazed at the move because there was no way to hide that extra bit of rope...

There are tricks out there that you should totally stay away from exposing. For example, anything that is copyrighted. Anything that you know is a staple of many folks' working repertoires. Linking rings, newspaper tears, the egg bag, DT. Anything I do.

You could go through a couple of Karl Fulves' books and pick out simple tricks from there for your exposure and I think relatively few folks would have a problem with that approach. Pick up a kids' magic book at the library and make note of a few basic tricks. These can be fun, but won't hammer the people who use magic for a living or for a serious hobby.

My beef with Valentino is that he did expose quite a few of the tricks that do matter to magicians, not as a way to teach, but as a way to make a buck. It is very different to end a show by teaching a trick that uses a cross-cut force as compared to explaining how linking rings work. If you don't cross the line into just giving away the secrets, then teaching tricks could be a really good way to keep people interested in magic.

Just be respectful of those of us who do protect the secrets, okay?

-Patrick

Another thought: You mention "a local producer" which makes me assume you are talking about a TV appearance. I have worked in broadcasting and married into a broadcasting family, so there are a couple of things to be aware of.

First, if you have been told the pay offer is firm, it probably is. However, there's always room for extras. If this producer works for a TV station, you can negotiate some free advertising as part of the package. You'll get spots where they can't sell anything else, of course, but you get free promotion. You can also ask about trade-out goodies. Many retaurants will pay for part of their advertising with gift coupons. These often go to the sales guys who take the contract, but if you mention that you would consider some trades in lieu of cash, you may find yourself able to take your wife to places you would ordinarily not be able to afford. (Still tip the wait staff with cash, as they probably won't see a dime of the gift certificate, unless the restaurants in your area are managed differently from those in mine.)

In short, don't assume that the offer you have been given is the final offer. Ask about alternatives to money that they can pay you with. They may have all sorts of things to offer you that you have not thought of.

Oh, and specify that if you work for less than your usual rate they cannot disclose the price for which you work. That way you don't get a call asking you to work for the same price doing a corporate party.

Just some random thoughts about the situation.

If this is an independent producer, specify that you want a percentage of his sales for the show in addition to what you have been offered and rights to buy DVDs of the productions at wholesale prices so you can resell on your own terms. Assuming he makes DVDs available (you might also be able to sell yourself with this suggestion, as he will then recognize that you believe the value of your performing is good enough to justify making DVDs).

-Patrick

I agree with you because even though I know how a trick is done i still enjoy watching a magician perform like the metaphorsis trick it,s still amazing of how quick some one can change places with each other

Ditto....Penn & Teller are my fav to watch. The Ball and Cup routine that they do with clear cups is still amazing to watch. You know its coming and yet there hands are still faster then the eye.

And the part about "The Masked Magician"...yes he made a buck, yes it was for television ratings. Got me to watch!

But with my line of work...it made me want to build some of the illusions, but make them better.
That's what I took and got from those shows.