WELL MAYBE THIS IS WHERE I SHOLD HAVE PUT MY NOTICE.
MY PROFILE PAGE AND AVITAR HAS A PIC OF MY FIRST FACE. IT WAS A HUGE LEARNING EXPERIENCE. BE KIND WITH YOUR WORDS, BUT DO NOT HOLD BACK. I AM HERE TO LEARN A NEW CRAFT, AND PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. OK.. LET THE PIES START FLYING....:applause:

not bad for a first go at it! the only thing I might do is either bring your cheeks up a little higher or bring the white at the top of your mouth down in the middle... I'm not seeing a "permanent smile" in that face. Certainly good though... you could go with that without any problems.

it doesnt look too bad.. you might make the tops of your muzzle round instead of flat looking like they are now.. also add some pips to your mouth (little dots or parts above your mouth to make it up turned and give a smile) and also you should paint the bald pate of your wig. it should match your skin color. one last thing. do you have a moustache? i couldnt tell for sure because the picture was small but it looked as though you might. if so i would recommend getting rid of it. white makeup does not work well over facial hair most of the time. it can be slightly scary to kids and stuff.. :D good job for a first try! keep practicing!

Thanks for the input. I plan on trying a new one every day till i find one i really like. I have to also find out how much makeup i should use.. Some places were a little heavy and when i went to dust them alittle bit got smudged and a little got on my powder puff...what could i do to improve that???

Mustache....gone.......noooooo!!!! Not gonna happen.. Been on my face since 67...been off one time in 74 long enough to show wife number 1 what i looked like w/o it..lol as far as the size of the pic...i dont know what happened.. I took a pic then tried to upload it but it was too big.. Then when i finally shrunk it it had that big old white border....back to the drawing board.. Thanks for the input...i plan on trying a new face every day and posting them...keep watching and letting me know what you think...8-)

there are ways you can work a mustache into your makeup perhaps a hobo character? just dont paint white or auguste color over it. also if you want some advice on makeup application check out my videos on youtube its just an auguste face right now but im in the process of making a hobo one and then perhaps a whiteface one. YouTube - How to Apply Auguste Makeup part 1 (supplies needed) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG8Kf0ha1nQ) :D good luck!

are you using a sock or setting powder? If using setting powder sprinkle on the puff and lightly rub it into the puff, then pat, not rub one face all over, then take a clean finger and gently touch in various places if make up comes off it's not set and need a little more powder if fingers come off clean you then use a large brush to brush off excess this will keep it from smearing. Should work with baby powder too, I just haven't use baby powder in a long time myself.

Thanks for the help saphire...i did not do it that way. I have a plastic bowl that i have some loose talc powder in and i just got my puff and tried to dust my face, then i used a soft brush to dust the excess off..
Better luck next time...lol

Knute::: I havea question for you or anyone else...when i ordered my wig i ordered a flesh colored one..and they sent a white one.. Well today i found out i cant get a flesh one because they are discontinued...anyway.. When a clown colors the scalp part on a bald wig.. Do you have to wash it every time. Or just once in awhile like how you would a reg regime of wig washing.. Also.. How do you apply it and do you set it like you wold your face....???? :???:

I think your face looks good I am not one to really give out advice just because I dont know alot about it yet but here is my 2 cents the moustach can stay there are several clowns on here that have facial hair such as my self you have to stay true to your self and thats a long time to have a moustache so dont shave it off just work around it there are many ways around it... go to a hobo clown or I just outline mine and I think it works
good luck to you

I like the face and curious to know what your plan to go with your persona?

I used to think "Shave my facial hair? No way!" After all, I've had at least a mustache since I graduated high school in '88. But last Sunday I took the plunge and have been clean shaven ever since. It's taking time for me to get used to what my face actually looks like, but I've had several people comment that I look younger without it. And I no longer have to worry about cleaning up the clippings from when I trim my mustache and goatee. Besides, I figure I can always grow it back if I decide to. :) My ex even says that I don't look a serious as I used to...guess now folks can see me smile. :)

Thanks bambam634, i at first thought of going hobo. That is why i ordered the black wig. But my way of thinking is kinda changing and im leaning more towards auguste now...or at least some sort of cobo of the two....i really dont want to have the stubble look...i am going to work on a new face daily till i find one i like. Keep in touch, and thanks for the input.8-)

Well i am magician that is very new to clowning. As new as you can get. I thought it would be better and more beneficial if i could have prospective clients have a choice of straight magician or clown magician, or straight clown with other things clowns do.. Ballons and such...hmmmmmm.. Persona....???? Goofy and surprised when things happen.
A little clumsy....silly, of course...but someways be a teacher on the underside...i plan on maybe working a little right and wrong into it. And possibly some morals.. Kids seem to be not getting enough of that either from home or school....thanks for a great question.. I had thought of these things before but i havent put them in writing yet.. And i know i should have....lol.. Welcome to the forum...it is the greatest thing since ice cream..:d

I am a single guy and cleaning shavings is not something i sweat.. Also i own a barbershop so im used to seeing clippings...lol. My mustache will stay on till i turn to dust...i will figure out how to work around it.... Thanks for the post.. And keep in touch..big things are on the way.. Knute sent me to his utube site and i learned a ton about appling makeup there...in fact i will work on another face tonite...cant wait....lol
thanks again..

as far as your wig goes.. just take your wig head if you have one.. and wrap it in plastic wrap then put your wig on it. then i just take a sponge or you could use yoru fingers and massage the makeup into the fabric. and do that until it looks even. then powder that really well you will have to press the powder into the fabric really well. i would not use your normal puff or sock. but then after you get that done. just take a spritzer bottle and spray it down well.. after all that is done you should be set. as far as washing goes.. i have never washed a wig. i dont think that its that necessary by the time i would need it washed it would be about time for a new one anyway. i know there will be differing oppinions on that but thats mine. but if you did wash it you would most likely have to reapply the makeup.

Thanks knute.. You have been an inspiration with all your help..i feel like a son.. Who is old enough.. To be your daddy..lol...as far as washing wigs, ive been told that when you wear them they can collect smells from sweat and such.. So that you should wash them perodically...im also thinking about changing wigs and going with a full sillyboy red or yellow...im gonna work on another fact tonite using the "knute" way of doing things right. Hopefully it will be better.. I also ordered some ben nye makeup.. I liked the point you made that it layers better then the mehron....anyhoooo... Thanks for your help..i owe you..8-)

lol I never said that my way was the "right" way its just what i prefer and what works for me. lol and i have never had a smell come out of my wig. lol my first wig was a bald silly boy that was painted and such and it had eyes painted up onto the pate with white acrylic paint. the only thing that happened there was that they yellowed after some time. but thats cause im a fat kid that sweats like a pig :D lol but ill try to find a pic to post of the first version of knute!


oh look i found a picture of the first version of knute! circa 2002ish :D

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww135/knutetheclown/l_7d9a580c14b39c0cc39116e289a6f206.jpg

Seeeeee.. You looked great there too.....you are accomplished...it shows. And i am going to pick your brain clean.....................trust me...heheheheee.. After im done with you you will be a zombe clown....lol
you mentioned that your wig was painted.. Do you mean with real paint????

i used the greasepaint for the auguste tone but i used acrylic for the eyes as an after thought they were added after about a year of not having them i would guess. but that was about 6 or 7 years ago i would guess... that was my very first costume it was no mooseburger like i have now.. it was a "grandma's original" :D lol

I think you face looks well. Tell me what got you into this chopper?

Well the economic times forced me into wanting to make more moola. I have been a magician since 91 and have been out of it for over 10 yrs. Well when i decided to get back to doing magic i decided to give prospective clients a choice of straight magic or clown magic.. I started doing some homework and here i am. Now i am hooked on clown because i really feel that my whole life i have counted myself as a clown of sorts. At all family events and wherever.. I am always the one cutting up and being witty. Now that i ahve decided to do this...well i should have done this years ago.. I has really gotten into my blood and i am such a newbie and have so much to learn...im just really glad i found this place....8-) to everyone involved with helping me.

Chopper, we are glad that you found the forum. We look forward to going along for the ride as you get into clowning and clown magic. Feel free to post some tips as not all of us are doing a lot of magic yet.

Sir toony: Thanks for the acceptance and the invitation. I am always eager to help with anything i can. I am not a david copperfield, but i count myself as at least someone that can make you enjoy the show.
The biggest thing i had to overcome when i started doing magic was trusting what i was doing.. Let me explain that a little. And understand that this is me, but i have had other magicians say they experience the same thing... And that is.. You get the feeling that once you know how a trick or effect works that you think that everyone else will see or know whats going on... That is the furthest thing from the truth. Thats why so many people get the biggest surprise with some of the simplest tricks. ... They dont know how it works.....the next thing is practice. Practice practic.. And do it in front of a mirror.. That way you can watch yourself and see if you might flash something or something you are trying to conceal can be seen...having a good sense of angles plays a big part in this. If you have a video recorder....film yourself from all angles....if you have any questions. Fire at will.. Where ever hes is at..lol

Now that i have decied to be a clown also.. My biggest bump in the road for me, is rewriting all the patter that i have for each of my effects...
Needless to say. I have been a little uptight with doing this because a clown delivers magic in a whole different way then a straight person...a straight person can say funny things, but a clown has to make it funny.. And still make things happen...a clown cannot look too professional because that will conflict with what a clown represents...so i have been working on alot of stage presense towards being just as surprised that the magic worked as the audience.... I have a book that i am reading that is helping by david ginn on clown magic., i found it on ebay and just got it on monday.. Very helpful and very well written..

... because a clown delivers magic in a whole different way then a straight person...a straight person can say funny things, but a clown has to make it funny..

Does that make me a gay person?

...a clown cannot look too professional because that will conflict with what a clown represents...

Well, not necessarily. Yes, I think that the presentation of a clown has to be a bit different than that of a tuxedoed magician. But it doesn't mean that it can't be effected in an eloquent manner, if that suits the character. Not every clown is a dumb goof, after all.

so i have been working on alot of stage presense towards being just as surprised that the magic worked as the audience.... I have a book that i am reading that is helping by david ginn on clown magic., i found it on ebay and just got it on monday.. Very helpful and very well written..

Good book! Employing the "magician (or clown) in trouble)" scenario is always a winner.

When i used the word "straight" i didnt mean it in the way of gay or straight. As far as eloquent. If you are a white face then eloquent is part of that, but being eloquent with an auguste or character, then it would be a contradiction...even freddy the freeloader *red skelton* had a bit of eloquence.....but it still was clown like, and was on the absurd side.. The way he would hold his cigar with a toothpick or tip his hat to a lady...the way a clown is as far as what kind of makeup he wears dictates his whole being., now dont get me wrong.. I am wording alot of this out of the book. Because it has opened my eyes to the finesse of magic with clowning....and i see what david ginn is saying.. And with him being a person that was mentored by buttons mcbride and him/ david being a verypolished & professional magician.. I take his word as being a right on approach and understanding. You can be a professional clown doing magic, but do you think david copperfeld would be taken so serious with his tricks dressed as a clown... You would expect a clown to not be so perfect.

I am not too much of a magician, yet the story-line that goes along with the trick is what makes the magic for me. I have been a magician in and out of clown character and I prefer in clown character. As a story telling clown, the some of tricks that I work on seem polished, and some are down right silly. Also as a clown minister, some are used in conjunction with Bible stories or parable lessons so they are used to illustrate a truth (at least a truth as far as I'm concerned). By the way, your face isn't too bad. I will echo the word of Knute, practice... I also had to color the pate of my wig. I wear a Shakespear. I have never washed it. In fact, in one workshop I attended, the presenter recommended not washing the wig saying that washing destroyed the attachment of the hair to the pate and caused the wig hair to lighten, thus not having the vivid color originally as purchased.

Great reply mulligan...i totally agree...patter (story) can make or break a trick as i'll call them...one of my most revered feelings of joy is watching a great magician using a very old effect or simple apparatus and making it his own with great patter. And joined with great body moves and presentation.

I agree there is an art to clown magic and it is different from a magician's magic. Clowns are probably a little less likely to have a beautiful assistant to step into a box and do some of the dancing around. But as you get started, I wouldn't be afraid of sticking a traditional magic trick into your act. It may not be in the clown character as much as you like, but we all have to begin somewhere.

I just finished my first beginner's magic class. I had been avoiding magic (partly because I was trying to learn so much other stuff, and partly because I thought it all required fancy hand moves). But after taking the class, I think that magic doesn't have to be difficult or involve slight of hand. Although the class was taught by a magician and the students were mainly under the age of 10, I still learned things and came up with new ideas.

Barry showed us one of the card tricks where he forced a card on someone. He had them dress up wearing a conehead to represent someone in the future and spin a hand mixer to transmit his futuristic brainwaves. It could work for a clown, but I thought another goofy idea was to take advantage of the age differences.... Kids are young and still in school, I am older and have finished school.... Therefore, the kid's future is my past, and since I have already been in their future, I know what card they selected.... I hope you get the idea. I think it is good clown logic...

I LIKE IT....AND YOU DESERVE AN A ... BECAUSE YOU GRASPED THE TRICK AND YOU ALREADY HAVE PLANS TO MAKE IT YOUR OWN....I MIGHT HAVE TO USE THAT LOGIC.. NOT THE SAME TRICK BUT THE LOGIC IN EXPLAINING HOW I KNOW WHAT CARD THEY WOULD CHOOSE....ESP IS VERY TOUCHY.. WITH KIDS..BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND... BUT...............IF YOU KEEP IT SIMPLE AND HAVE AN EXPLAINATION LIKE YOU ARE GOING TODO WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE TELLING ME.. IT MAKES SENSE.. THAT THEY WILL UNDERSTAND.......BRAVO.....!!!!8-):applause:

Although the class was taught by a magician and the students were mainly under the age of 10, I still learned things and came up with new ideas

this sounds a bit like the magic version of billy madison ;)

When i used the word "straight" i didnt mean it in the way of gay or straight.

But I enjoy being a happy, free spirited being!

Now, the divorcee, OTOH, did his wife really get rid of him because she discovered he was homosexual?

As far as eloquent. If you are a white face then eloquent is part of that, but being eloquent with an auguste or character, then it would be a contradiction...even freddy the freeloader *red skelton* had a bit of eloquence.....but it still was clown like, and was on the absurd side.. The way he would hold his cigar with a toothpick or tip his hat to a lady...the way a clown is as far as what kind of makeup he wears dictates his whole being., now dont get me wrong.. I am wording alot of this out of the book. Because it has opened my eyes to the finesse of magic with clowning....and i see what david ginn is saying.. And with him being a person that was mentored by buttons mcbride and him/ david being a verypolished & professional magician.. I take his word as being a right on approach and understanding. You can be a professional clown doing magic, but do you think david copperfeld would be taken so serious with his tricks dressed as a clown... You would expect a clown to not be so perfect.

True. And, yet, Pricilla Mooseburger (a very pretty whiteface clown, typically) notes that when she was in Clown College they tried to make her an auguste because of her natural physical comedic skills. She pouted all day and they told her to go back to being a whiteface if that is what she liked. She believes that the irony of a whiteface being so bumbled is what made her funny in that it didn't seem to fit the character at all. So could an auguste (or hobo) just as well be clever and unexpectedly highbrow? Why not?

Clowns are probably a little less likely to have a beautiful assistant to step into a box and do some of the dancing around.

That isn't to say that we wouldn't like one. In fact, turning a rabbit into a pretty lady seems like just the sort of thing a clown could do!

But as you get started, I wouldn't be afraid of sticking a traditional magic trick into your act. It may not be in the clown character as much as you like, but we all have to begin somewhere.

I have no objection at all to changing the pace of a show to something more straightforward with magic as part of an overall act. If it quiets and intrigues an audience while wowing or teaching a lesson, that's good. I can then proceed to build them back up in exuberant playfulness.

I just finished my first beginner's magic class. I had been avoiding magic (partly because I was trying to learn so much other stuff, and partly because I thought it all required fancy hand moves).

One of the best clown acts I have ever seen was from the most recent James Theirre (grandson of Charlie Chaplin) show, Au Revoire Parapulie, in which standard tricks are performed in rapid succession - all without the actual props. The entire thing is pantomimed. Fancy hand gestures made funny!

A TRUE CLOWN WOULD TURN A PRETTY GIRL INTO A RABBIT...AND I WONDER WHY THE TEACHERS AT PRISCILLAS SCHOOL WERE TRYING TO CHANGE...Hmmmm..
DIDNT YOU SAY YOU HAD THIS BOOK I AM READING.... GO TO THE VERY LAST PAGE OF CHAPTER ONE AND RE READ IT..I MIGHT BE WORDING THINGS THAT ARE MAKING YOU THINK THAT CLOWN CANNOT EVER BE EXACT... AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT...THIS IS PERTAINING TO BEING A CLOWN THAT DOES MAGIC..PLUS I WILL REPEAT MYSELF...I AM THE FURTHEST THING FROM BEING A PROFESSIONAL CLOWN.. THAT IS WHY I AM READING AND LEARNING FROM A BOOK THAT FEATURES THE THOUGHTS AND FEELING OF TWO FANTASTIC AND WELL REGARDED EXPERTS. DAVID GINN AND BUTTONS MCBRIDE....I THINK THAT IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT I AM SAYING.. THEN YOU SHOULD TAKE IT UP WITH THEM..I AM JUST THE GO BETWEEN... ALL OF MY TRICKS ARE TRADITIONAL...BUT NOW THEY WILL HAVE THE FLAIR OF BEING DONE BY A CLOWN..

Kindly release the caps lock, please. It makes things hard to read. Besides, I KNOW you aren't actually sitting there shouting at your computer.

I'm not disagreeing or taking issue with anyone, especially the noted entertainers and instructors whose good advice you are gaining.

However, realize this. When it comes to clowning there are always going to be many perspectives, each of which has its own insight. That is a good thing as it offers us a wider view from individual experiences and personalities. Ultimately, one has to discover what best suits himself as a unique clown.

I AM NOT YELLING AT MY PUTER OR ANYONE ELSE...LOL..I JUST LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS AND IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO READ...LOL.. I SUFFER FROM HARD OF READING...tim.........it has been a pleasure discussing all this...8-)

I just posted 7 new pics of face number 2. With some different hats. I didnt realize till i uploaded them that my eyes are pretty close the same...and my smile lines on the lower parts went wavy when i smiled...any hints and such.....lay it on me.. Thanks

I liked your eyes on the new one. i think your mouth was way too big.. width wise it shouldnt extend past your pupils, height wise i havent ever heard guidelines but you dont want it to be huge still movable with your natural movements.. and lowness under your mouth would usually be the cleft in your chin or just under that otherwise i thought it looked really good in all the other areas of your face. :D

I like the second face better, and nothing against your wig, it looks good, but I really like you with just the cap and the two black hats.

Thanks saphiresue...ive ordered a different wig...i have a regular yellow silly boy....there were things on this second face that i liked, but there were things i questioned...its a learning experience , i almost did another last night because i couldnt use my puter.. Due to the storm we had going on...but tonite.. Is another night.. And ill do another one then...keep your peepers glued for upcoming faces....lol

Knute..thanks so much...this one was more fun to put on.. Not so much that it was better, but just in the fact that after watching your videos.. I knew much more on how to apply the makeup..even to the point of knowing how to use the sponge...lol i cant believe i even got through my first face... Everything was so much easier...my mouth.. Was a big disappointment on this one....and my eyes were better, but i was suprised when i posted the pics that they were very similar to my first ones...tonight face will be different....ive ordered a different wig also..i ordered a yellow silly boy..we will see what that looks like when it gets here...anyway.. Stay in touch. To the same bat channel for a new episode of..."the changing face".....lol

Knute..i forgot to ask you...can i use the same sponges over again, or shold i use a fresh one every time.????

i have had the same sponges for my auguste makeup for probably a year or two.. so yes you can reuse them

I think I like the face in your profile picture better than the one in the album. The mouth was too big and I felt it needed to be outlined.

HEY TOONY.. you know when you give a 3 year old a tube of lip stick...well thats what happened...it was one of those experments that went totally wrong...i did like parts of my eyes better then my first..but like you.. i liked my shape and size of my first mouth...stay tuned....i will post another face tomorrow late afternoon or evening...... yeah.. i definitely look like ive been making out with carol channing....lol

Has anyone shown you the magic of a q-tip? It is great for removing extra makeup. I use it to remove the white makeup when I am drawing my mouth. As long as you haven't powdered, you should be able to remove any extra makeup and change the design.

OK My freinds...i have uploaded face number 3...i did not notice till i started uploading them that i forgot to put my nose on.......OH PISHAW...!!! a clown w/o his nose....what can i say im a polock...i didnt ask to be this way, my parents rest there souls.. made me this way...I am still having a bit of problem with my pips.. even without gladys....i am getting good movement, but there is still something missing..??? lay it on my brothers and sisters...i am all ears and i'm listening..:???:

Chopper, I think you will need a checklist to make sure you have everything in its place before going out on a gig. But, even without the nose, it says clown.

THANKS TOONY...what else could you help me with.. it just seems to be missing something.. and i know it is not just the nose.. i also know that i need to keep experimenting, but it takes me so long to put one on and then to change just something small is a real chore. do you have any ides with the pips. and i wonder what the mouth would have looked like outlined in black...or maybe the smile with little black accents on the pip parts...i dont know...helllllllp !!

I added your nose back from another of your pictures and tried to outline your mouth and muzzle area...

http://www.clown-forum.com/members/sir-toony-van-dukes-albums-other-clowns-picture3460-chopper3.jpg

I like the pic Toony.

Looks like we have another clown on our hands. You have come a long way in a short period of time Chopper.

Are you related to the Orange County boys?

thanks toony:
i will try to duplicate this face tomorrow...thanks...my hand is not this steady with my paint program..i just printed this one out for a reference..
--------------------------------------

fitzwilly:
as far as the relationships to the orange county guys , lol...i will post a picture of my barbershop also.. then you will see why i chose my name.....

Chopper, here are a couple of thoughts for a magician moving into clowning.

-As to your patter, remember that a magician makes magic, but magic "happens" around a clown in spite of the bumbling. In other words, a clown should be as surprised and excited as the audience when a trick works!

- If you are having a hard time deciding on your clown persona, don't forget character clowns. Especially for a magician, a character may be the perfect cross between an auguste and a hobo.

Bump a Nose!

HI MAX: thanks for the post and ideas...i was in a discussion with tim just last week when i was trying to explain about the magic thing and the difference that you pointed out.. we.. you and i share the same thoughts...i am leaning towards a character of sorts. and also possibly a double one.. one for parties with magic and one even more animated for times when there wouldnt be any magic. once again, thanks for your input.. it is great appreciated..8-)

FITZWILLY: Iadded a pic of my shop if youre interested..

Ok all you clowns....check out the new chopper in full dress, well not a dress but in 2 of his outfits. New wig.. Final face. Chopper...in living color...sorry for some of the dark ones...my flash bounced off the mirror and they actually got over compensated. Go figure..