Today I was at a yard sale at businesses in downtown New Bern, and out of curiousity, I stopped by an antique store that had advertised they would have "face painting" for kids. There was a lady out front with a TV tray table and a sign that said "Face Paint $2", and on her tray I spied about a dozen bottles of arcylic paint. I wanted to say something so bad (she had no customers, so I wouldn't have been impeding her business)...but I chickened out. Didn't want to start a big thing. Do you all say something when you see that going on? Or do you just bite your tongue like I did? Just wondering how you would have handled it (if at all)....:???:

are you kidding? was she really planning on painting kids faces with acrylics? that is so weird I would have had to say something!

I'm not kidding. It wasn't the kind you see people use on canvas, but the craft type paints. Not that I know of a difference between the two...

I said something to someone one time. . .I organized a "Clown Carnival" with this lady in a town nearby. . .she said I could do balloons and she would handle face painting. I was setting up my "workshop" area and she was setting up her face paints. I was astonished to see her with the acrylic paints. I asked her if she always used acrylics and she said she did. . .I asked her if anyone ever had any problems with allergies, etc., and she said she takes care of it by putting up a sign that says, "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES"

I handed her a tray of face paints and said leave the acrylics for the sign painting.

Good point...If I were "working" with her, I would have definitely said something. But just being a bystander, I felt odd.

I did a balloon twisting event for Sears employees at a xmas party and there was someone there painting the kids with that stuff... just cheek art, but still. I didn't say anything at the time, but I told my mentor clown (who I was hired by to do the gig) and suggested that the next time they call her to do a party that she let them know that we have people who use FDA certified face paints that are meant to be used on the skin and try to up sell getting a professional to do it for them.

As for walking by... I might have chickened out too. I'd like to say that I would have told her right there and then, but I probably would have just walked by too since there wasn't anyone being immediately harmed by her. Maybe we all need a shot of courage to do what is right for the kids so their parents don't have to scrub their face for 1/2 an hour to get that crap off of them later.

I would probably say something just because I have little ones, and would hate for any little pumpkins to be harmed by that stuff!

This is a hard question.
I would not say anything unless I was getting my face painted or working with her.
Ok maybe I would ask her if she had ever tried the pro face paints?
So she would have the chance to ask what the difference is. If she did not ask, I would just say they work much better for me when I am face painting, and there are safety reason also.

I don't face paint and I can see your not wanting to create a scene but I reckon you could have ventured in and expressed your concern to the management of the store and let them know the liabiliies at stake and the seriousness of the situation. I too would not have wanted to start a big thing but most likely would have atleast warned a cashier inside or something.

~Sam 8-)

I see this constantly and it never fails to annoy me -- and enough that at one recent event I expressed my concerns to the event coordinators so that they were aware of the issues involved. In this case I waited until the event was OVER before saying anything.

It's a tough thing to do but this is an issue that we are going to need to address. It's very simple -- we can either police ourselves or the government and media will do it for us, and we damn sure don't want that.

I understand the position of the typical "face painter." They've had no training. They don't KNOW anything. Most have never even bought a single book. They saw someone at an event painting little hearts and footballs on kids cheeks and they thought, "I can do that!" and off they went. But for us, this is our JOB. If we don't deliver quality work we don't eat, so for us this is a serious issue.

I know that several craft stores sell paints that say "Face Paints" on the containers, but they are in little containers like other craft paints. I don't know if there is any difference between these paints and the craft paints next to them. Since the package says, "Face Paints" the people could honestly think they are using something safe. (I honestly don't know if these are considered safe)

I know that Snazaroo is starting to get their face paints into craft stores. A few months ago, I saw some at Pearl Crafts and know that they recently started being sold at Michaels. My local Michaels have the 8-color packs, both the primary pack and one for girls with purple, pink, and a few glitter colors. Many of the stores also sell the Klutz book that comes with the Wolfe Brothers paint.

If your chicken, get a card with e-mail address. Send e-mail with a link to Snazzaroo or something. But don't be chicken. Won't be the last time we see this stuff. There's nice ways to bring things to peoples attention. Chances are, maybe they really don't know. Lifes full of all kinds of "speaking up out of Love" challenges.

Here is hoping that she remained with no customers for the rest of the day. Surely most parents would not allow this stuff to be used on their kid.

It's difficult to speak up sometimes Pinky so don't be tough on yourself.

tickles

I'm not a face painter, but if I was, I might go up to that person and say, "Hi, I'm a face painter, too! What kind of face paints are those - I've never seen those before." (Maybe it will make the person squirm a little or make them go home and do some research).

I know that several craft stores sell paints that say "Face Paints" on the containers, but they are in little containers like other craft paints. I don't know if there is any difference between these paints and the craft paints next to them. Since the package says, "Face Paints" the people could honestly think they are using something safe. (I honestly don't know if these are considered safe)

I know that Snazaroo is starting to get their face paints into craft stores. A few months ago, I saw some at Pearl Crafts and know that they recently started being sold at Michaels. My local Michaels have the 8-color packs, both the primary pack and one for girls with purple, pink, and a few glitter colors. Many of the stores also sell the Klutz book that comes with the Wolfe Brothers paint.

Sir Toony:
These were definitely the kind you would use to paint wood crafts projects. I got close enough to see that.

I'm not a face painter, but if I was, I might go up to that person and say, "Hi, I'm a face painter, too! What kind of face paints are those - I've never seen those before." (Maybe it will make the person squirm a little or make them go home and do some research).


Well said, Violet, I would add and subtract two words to that question to really drive in the punch...


"Hi, I'm a professional face painter. What kind of face paints are those - I've never seen those before."

Today I was at a yard sale at businesses in downtown New Bern, and out of curiousity, I stopped by an antique store that had advertised they would have "face painting" for kids. There was a lady out front with a TV tray table and a sign that said "Face Paint $2", and on her tray I spied about a dozen bottles of arcylic paint. I wanted to say something so bad (she had no customers, so I wouldn't have been impeding her business)...but I chickened out. Didn't want to start a big thing. Do you all say something when you see that going on? Or do you just bite your tongue like I did? Just wondering how you would have handled it (if at all)....:???:

That's scary! I think I woulda said SOMETHING! But then I have a big mouth! acrylic paint is dangerous for facepaint! She could make someone really sick. I hope she didn't get any customers, not to be mean, just out of concern for the kids!

I'm not kidding. It wasn't the kind you see people use on canvas, but the craft type paints. Not that I know of a difference between the two...
Are you SURE it was acrylic? Some facepaint looks like craft paint(so many different companies.) Be sure before you accuse her of using toxic paint, okay? If it IS acylic, now that's scary!

Sir Toony:
These were definitely the kind you would use to paint wood crafts projects. I got close enough to see that.


oooohhhhh, nooooo! Nobody checks the warning labels? The kind that say "do not use on skin"? Some people have no sense of responsibility! SCARY!

I buy craft paint, too! For crafts!

One company that makes paints that look like craft paints, but say face paints on the package is Palmers. They say, "Palmer's Face Paint is ideal for small children and students because it is non-toxic and easily washes off skin with mild soap and water." They come in little paint pots and various larger sizes.

You can read a blog where the question was asked about their paints...

palmer face paint (http://www.face-painting-fun.com/palmer-face-paint.html)

palmer's is a face paint, but it's consider to be very poor quality by most.

Yes, but it is harder to tell someone they aren't using the right type of paints, when they are using a product that is a face paint. I think that someone needs to contact them and ask them not to package their paints in the same type of container as craft paints as that only serves to convince people that any old craft paint is fine, which it isn't.

I absolutely agree with you Sir Toony. The bottles are a confusing visual message and this is only reinforced due to the fact that the authentic face *makeup*is not readily available to the public.

The word *facepaint* is also misleading as the word PAINT in it implies we use paint.

But what can we call it so that people know it's facepainting but not with paint?

Face Designs?

Face Art?

Even the word FACEpainting is misleading because we just don;t do the faces, but arms too,
so maybe it should be called

Body Art?

Body Artistry?

Body Canvas?

I give up.

I don't use Palmers, but I do let my granddaughter use it for practice because one time when she was using a new set of mine, she ruined them. So, I let her use the Palmers and a practice head. When she gets better at face painting, I will get her a good set.

I certainly would NOT let her use them in public and neither would I.

as far as saying some thing... one event I was hired as the clown and they had volunteer face painters [church group] this was also a charity event. After I saw what they were using, I did go to the person who hired me and asked her to check out web sites on face painting, and just mentioned they could be opening themselves up to all sorts of problems if they have people do face painting, that weren't using the appropriate supplies.... Just looking at the sites were enough for her. And one School carnival I did this year asked if I'd have a problem with their art teachers doing some face painting as well, "I told her no as long as they used approp. materials and gave her some web. sites to look at, she later came back and told me that explained more why we charge what we do and she was passing the information along to her art teachers. so I atleast try to do what I can to educate without "fussing at some one directly" Had to call the state Mission organization on it this past year for an event we participated in, as a church group [not clowns] and they were recommending facepainting as a way to minister, but listed all the wrong things to use. I never got an email back, but when I went to check out the class they had a corrected list so .. never hurts to try, and you might get through to some of them.

Just this weekend I was at an event selling retail. They had not allowed us to do our fantasy makeup (we do not call it facepainting) because there was already a "facepainter" booked and they didn't want competition. As it happens, this facepainter was set up right next to me and I had an opportunity to check out the product she was using.

It was airbrush fabric paint for T-Shirts.

She said she had been using it for years and without complaint.

Obviously, it's always awkward to say something, but in this case it was even worse. She was aware that I had tried to get in at this event and been turned down, and my commenting about the PAINT she was using would have simply been dismissed. I had intended to say something at the end of the event, before she left, but basically I forgot until now. Fortunately she was from out of the area and didn't do well at all. She was quite vocal in saying that she would not be back, so I guess she is now someone else's problem.

FABRIC PAINT?!? Please tell me you're joking!

I had a similar situation.
I discreatly handed her my card and said if she would call me I would tell her where to get proffesional face paints that are approved for use on skin, that they work really nicely.

I got a drop dead look and no call.

The fact is they can buy the craft paint for 25 cents each on sale. They are just to cheap to spend the money we do on the good stuff. They only care about profit and not the children.

The only way to combate this is with public education.

FABRIC PAINT?!? Please tell me you're joking!

Nope. I only wish I were.

The only way to combate this is with public education.

I respectfully disagree. The public is the last people we want to even hear about this. If enough of a stink is made the media will pick up on it. We will be treated to horror headlines and local government do-gooders slapping on licensing regulations and inspections and fees. I am picturing the headlines now:

FACEPAINT? or FACEPAIN! The FRIGHTENING truth EVERY parent NEEDS to know!!!!

The only thing parents will remember is that facepaint is scary.

My mentor clown and I are currently contacting a local media group that does short educational segments from local businesses in a daily online show... they used to do it on a daily news broadcast, but our local news channel is closing down so they took it online. We're hoping they'll have us on to do a segment on face painting which would allow us to not only show some of our best work but also talk about professional face paints and let parents know that if they see craft paints, don't let them put it on your child's face. I hope they will have us on.... it would be cool.

The fact is they can buy the craft paint for 25 cents each on sale. They are just to cheap to spend the money we do on the good stuff. They only care about profit and not the children.

A little off topic, but where do you get craft paint for a quarter? I'll just use it on crafts, I swear! Just wondering because I've never seen it, although most toxic paints(like fabric paints) say specifically not to use them on skin so I would think these so called "face painters" would know that. Do you think they might be illiterate? Only excuse I could figure. Even then, they could ask, "what does this say?" <<(sigh)>>

the craft paints generally say "non toxic" and they use that as an excuse that they are safe... it also says however, that if you get it on your skin (accidentally) to wash it off with soap and water while it is still wet. They are not tested for being hypo allergenic and are a liquid plastic which means they don't let the skin breathe at all.

I've seen them at the dollar store, but not for a quarter.

Scary stuff!

They are non-toxic when used in the manner they were intended.

Micheal's has the craft paints on sale from time to time. They are sometimes as cheap as 25 cents. I have seen a local "clown" snatch them up in a frenzy to use for face painting.

I still think educating the public is the only way to deal with this. Not scare them. Educate them before someone is hurt and causes big headlines. Educating the face painters has limited effect if all they are looking for is bigger profits. Once there is a bad result you are fighting an up hill battle.

Maybe we should educate the public to simply be cautious and check to make sure it IS face paint. Check to see if the "face painter" has a label they can check. If not, go elsewhere!

I was hired by another local children's entertainer this past weekend to do balloons at a couple of events while she did the face painting. She was using Mehron liquid paints, and the Mehron metallic powders. But instead of using the mixing liquid that I've seen, she mixed the powders with hairspray. I was blown away - I've never heard of face painters doing that, and while it seemed wrong, I don't use that powder so I can't say I've done any research on what can properly be mixed with the metallic powders.

I didn't want to say anything in front of the clients, and totally forgot to ask her about that after.

Has anyone heard of using hairspray as a mixing liquid? She says she's been doing this for 20 years, but after a weekend of seeing the most scatterbrained entertainer with the worst time management I've worked with, i'm not sure how she keeps getting repeat customers.

she mixed the powders with hairspray.



Ummmmmmmmmmmmm..............................yikes! !

Can't say I've ever heard of that. But in MHO I wouldn't let anyone put that on my kids face. And I would never DREAM of using it in my painting.
Yeah, that's just, um......weird.


C~

instead of using the mixing liquid that I've seen, she mixed the powders with hairspray.
Surely she knows that hairspray is poisonous! I think that it's even more dangerous than acrylic. What are these people thinking!?!

For the children's sake, I hope she didn't have many(or any) little customers!

I ran into a facepainter at my last event. It sure looked like junky craft paint - the artwork reminded me of the California Clown School in Las Vegas. She said she was using face paint (probably Palmer's), so I tried to steer her toward Mehron and Snazaroo before her next gig. It's hard to tell somebody that you think their materials and all are garbage, but hopefully I handled things tactfully enough that she'll get quality stuff before her next activity.

I see this constantly and it never fails to annoy me -- and enough that at one recent event I expressed my concerns to the event coordinators so that they were aware of the issues involved. In this case I waited until the event was OVER before saying anything.

It's a tough thing to do but this is an issue that we are going to need to address. It's very simple -- we can either police ourselves or the government and media will do it for us, and we damn sure don't want that.

I understand the position of the typical "face painter." They've had no training. They don't KNOW anything. Most have never even bought a single book. They saw someone at an event painting little hearts and footballs on kids cheeks and they thought, "I can do that!" and off they went. But for us, this is our JOB. If we don't deliver quality work we don't eat, so for us this is a serious issue.
Besides, just because they didn't do the research doesn't mean it is ok for them to possibly harm someone. We wouldn't walk by if someone was about to put lighter fluid on a kid's face! I know that it takes a lot of courage to cause someone embarrassment, but there are ways to highlight an issue and maintain dignity of all involved.

Well, still being a teenager, I can pull this off quite effectively, but when I see someone using acrylics I approach them as a potential customer... flip throught their book if they have one, then I ask what kind of paints they are using (even though I already know). If and when they tell me anything other than the brands I know are safe I hand them one of the cards my mom and I decided to make up that says,

Do you know what that face painter is using on your child’s skin?

There are only 6 FDA approved paints for skin: *Mehron – Paradise Paints * Wolfe Brothers *
* Krylon * Snazaroo * BenNye * Jim Howle *

(These contain NO LEAD or PLASTICS to irritate the skin)

Ask what brand and where it was purchased before your child chooses a design.
It’s for their safety!


And i tell them, "I got my face painted about a week ago by this really cool lady and she handed me this card... I think you could use it a lot more than me. I think all of those have websites too, I checked them out." Then I just walk away, that way, I'm not being confrontational, but I'm still telling the "painter" that what they are doing is bad for children.

well...there's another tactic that could work... proudly display the key information at our painting stations... as parents start seeing pro's (or experienced am's) advertising that they're using the safe stuff, perhaps they'll get the idea to start asking when it's not posted... (especially if the statement includes something about "parents ought to know what's going on their kids' faces") we might also include such a phrase in marketing for jobs ("my paints are approved for safety and easy cleanup")... maybe even a little sign board that shows the slash-circle around a variety of craft paints (or the word acryllic) and a green circle with a smiley around the good brands (highlighting the one being used at present) ...a thumbs up image with "certified safe" written on it?? if the industry came up with a common logo, that would be good...

if I weren't in uniform, perhaps I'd sit down and ask the person to paint my hand, then stop them to ask what they're using... if unapproved, say, "I'm sorry, that's not safe - did you know...etc...?" and give them the info that way - there is a bit of difference between malicious cheapskate and honestly ignorant, and lots of people who fit somewhere between...

I like the card idea... it would work especially well for those of us who don't speak, much less speak-up...

There is an older woman in my hometown who has been doing cheek art at every town event for as long as I can remember. She uses craft paint. I really didn't think anything about this untill i started painting myself. Last year at the county fair I spotted her painting on an Infant...I was shocked but too much of a wimp to say anything. Well, next week the county fair is rolling around again and i will be painting for the first time there. I'm going to make sure people who come by my booth know that craft paint is unsafe and i only use fda aproved paint.

I know there is a lady that paints at our local county fair and other fairs and festivals in the area, and she uses paint that somehow is worse than acrylics...
"HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!" you might ask? Well here it is: If you ask her what kind of paint she uses, this is what she tells you: "Oh, I make my own."
When I found this out I just about died right there on the spot. It was all I could do to keep from calling this lady out on what she was doing. So, I calmly (as calmly as possible) told her how that is not a safe practice, she could really hurt someone doing that. And she jsut replied: "Oh, I try not to paint people with sensitive skin." However, I had stood off to the side and watched her for some time and she NEVER ONCE asked someone if they had sensitive skin. So, i gave her one of our cards and told her where she could get GOOD and SAFE facepaints for ver reasonable prices and all she said was: "I've been doing this for years! I'm not going to change my whole way of doing things jsut because some snotty know-it-all kid comes up and tells me she doesn't like what I'm doing!! That paint is too expensive and a waste of money when what I have here is just as good and cheaper!"
At that point I walked away. knew i could not carry on that conversation civily if I wanted to. Back at our booth I told mom and one of our 4-Hers what happened and then the 4-Her left and came back with some of that lady's paint on her and said "NOW we'll see how safe her paint really is!"
Within only 5 MINUTES Jessica (the 4-Her) turned to me and said
"Sandra, I need to get this off, now."
"Why? What's wrong?"
"It's burning! My face is burning!"
"Oh my gosh! Here, here's a wet-wipe!"
The wet wipe did NOTHING to get this crap off of her face. We had to go to the nearest restroom and use soap and water and STILL we had a hard time getting it off, this stuff seemed to ahve FUSED itself to her skin. When we finally got it all off we saw the whole left side of her face had broken out in a nasty Red, bumpy rash that stayed there ALL DAY. She had to go to the doctor to get something to help clear it up.
We then informed the Fair Board who allows the Vendors in and told them. We haven't gotten a response back yet.

BOTTOM LINE:
if you see someone with questionable paints, ASK what they are using, if it is not safe INFORM them what is safe and where they can get it. If they are incooperative or just plain rude, NOTIFY the event coordinators, so they a.) don't let them back to the event after the current event, or b.) can ask them ot change their paint or c.) clear out (I doubt this would ever happen though!)

Just some more of my (more than) 2 cents.

oh my PUnky, that's terrible! I'm afraid to think what someone might put in home made paint like that..... I have seen some instructions online at a parenting site on how to make safe face paints but they always start with cold cream which would end up being so disgustingly greasy I can't imagine what kind of results it would give.

When people say how expensive proper paints are, I really don't think they realize how many faces you can paint with one purchase.

At Joey to the World last year I was in line at the badge guy behind another clown who asked to have this button made. I liked it and said I would like one to. Maybe we should all have one.
It says:

I CARE
I use only FDA compliant,
professional, cosmetic grade
face paints and safe glitters.
I do not use craft paints
(acrylic, tempra ect...)
or markers.

I know it looks wordy but on a round button it actualy looks OK. I wear it when I am just face painting.

I have parents who are very nervous about getting thier kids face painted because they have had such bad experiance with the other local clown who uses craft paint. They can't get it off well, it makes the kids break out...you know the stories. And what is worse...She has trained her two grown daughters to do the same thing. So there is a lot of bad paint out ther.

I have talked to the woman and so have other clowns. Her response is to close her eyes, hold up her hands and say "I don't want to hear it". This is a WCA and COAI member with performance insurance too. All I can do is do a better job myself. I even over heard another clown tell her it would invalidate her insurance if there was an incident. She didn't want to hear it, became angery, and stopped the conversation. So what more can you do?

CoCo
You have done all you can do. Thanks so much for trying.