Censorship and cartoons

[The_Princess_of_Bozonia]

Yeah, not good to have bait on your breath

[Jolly Well]

Good read. I hope this thread doesn't get ugly and locked. Everyone participating, please feel free to disagree with everyone else! (but please do so in a respectful manner)

Here goes!

Where do children pick up bad behavior? Could it be from the parents and other close relatives? Less than child friendly movies? Or, could cartoons possibly be the culprit?

All of the above and countless other sources. You can live in a house with no television, books, or radio and your kids will still have moments of behavior that we see as "bad." Other kids at school are going to introduce different bahvior patterns, and they'll hear the random stranger at the grocery store say something inappropriate because they forgot something in isle 4 at the back of the store.

While I am very torn when it comes to the subject of censoring art and history, some censorship in cartoons may be for the better.

I could not disagree with this more. I'll explain myself throughout this post as I touch on different points from your intial writing.

I believe that refusing to show our children horrid racism is the right thing to do. Yes, it was part of our past, but there's no need to start the past all over again.

I have to think that there is a better way than censorship. Certainly the extreme racism from our past was horrible (any kind of racism really). Telling someone how bad it was will have little impact, so allowing the cartoons you listed to be viewed can be educational. The viewer can see how extreme it really was when every aspect of society was a culprit. Looney Toons helped train a generation to continue the racist ways of the past, but the end result would have been the same without the cartoons. It was just where our country was at the time...

When is censoring cartoons acceptable and when is it silly and trivial?
Just how impressionable are our children?
When does the responsibility of animation company stop and the responsibility of the parents begin?

I cannot think of a moment when censoring is acceptable.
I'm not saying there isn't material out there that is deeply offensive; just that censorship isn't the answer. If the offensive material never makes its way into some form of media - it will still spread.

No doubt that people of all ages are more impressionable than they should be.

Animation companies have zero responsibility in raising children. The only people I feel they should be accountable to are the stockholders of their company - by making a product that makes money.

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I saw a quote once that went something like:

Every thing I need to know, I learned from reading banned books

There should never be a banned book. First, wh decides if it qualifies to be banned and why? In our past, some literary works have been banned that are now seen as works of genius.

Educating yourself is the first step. It's hard to convince someone of anything if you cannot make an educated case for your cause. Developing a relationship of trust with your children is neccessary before you can educate them - if they value someone else's opinion more than yours - they'll listen to that person even if he is talking hate. Educate your child - watch the movie with them and discuss it. Tell them why its wrong.

There was ALOT less school shootings when Bugs Bunny was around ALot less Killing when Disney made those great cartoons. Oh yeah I forgot that was when families sat down to watch TV, Eat Dinner, and they prayed before they ate.

Many of those same families sat down and watched All in the Family together and laughed about Archie Bunker (one of the biggest racist shows ever - I admittedly watch this on T.V. Land - I love old T.V.), they also sent their white kids to white schools, used derogatory slang when talking about blacks (or women, or anyone not like themselves). They killed Martin Luther King jr., and set forth hate and anger against more people of color than we will ever know. Thinking life was perfect a few decades ago is also a fantasy.

Maybe there weren't any shootings in school back then, but it is the children of these very people who are killing their classmates. It is possible that media has an impact - I still don't support censorship from my points above.

I don't believe there is any possible way to shelter these things from anyone; and I feel an attempt to do so puts whoever is being sheltered at a disadvantage somehow. Trust and guidance are the likely keys to countering the negative things people learn in life.

Maybe one day when it isn't a big deal that a black man is trying to become President, and it is justaman, we can toss some of the garbage from our past into a waste basket somewhere - I sadly cannot see that day ever coming to pass.

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the only mass killer I had ever heard of was Charles Manson

I know it is only a technicality, but Charles Manson never killed anyone himself...

[Calavera]

Originally Posted by Jolly Well

I have to think that there is a better way than censorship. Certainly the extreme racism from our past was horrible (any kind of racism really). Telling someone how bad it was will have little impact, so allowing the cartoons you listed to be viewed can be educational. The viewer can see how extreme it really was when every aspect of society was a culprit. Looney Toons helped train a generation to continue the racist ways of the past, but the end result would have been the same without the cartoons. It was just where our country was at the time...

That's an interesting point to think about. I will bow and admit that perhaps I was a little hasty in saying that government censorship should be active. I probably should have advocated parental censorship instead. After all, the parent knows what is suitable for their children, correct?

Still, children do love cartoons and they will take things from them, even if they contradict what the parents are trying to teach. These things are beloved characters and, at times, they are all the child has in their life. That is not to say that cartoons are the only culprit and that they affect every child in the same way.

Speaking from the view point of parental censorship, what do you consider inappropriate for you children to watch?

As for me, although I am not a mother, the age gap between my brother and myself allows me to practice that role on a regular basis.

While my brother is in my care, I would prefer for him NOT to view blatantly racist cartoons. Living with a very close-minded step-father, he encounters enough ignorance in his life. I'm not going to let some pen and ink character give him the impression that racism is okay to the point where it is considered "funny" to mock and degrade those who are different from him. For obvious reasons, I would also censor him against pornography.

Likewise, I will not allow him to be around a blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic person. I will not let his views on life become so distorted at an age where he is just beginning to realize these issues. I do not want him to become another bane on society and its progress via imitation.

While I do agree that yes, we should make an effort to educate ourselves and our children, I have to disagree with your censoring issue. At the least, parental censorship should be active to prevent adding fuel to the fire on subjects that are less than favorable. I do not say that there should be a standard for parents. Rather, decisions should be present that they make themselves until the child is mature enough to not be so easily impressionable and they have learned to think for themselves, not to take cues from others.

[Harpoetta]

I agree with Bonkers and Jolly Well, censorship should be up to the parents, not the government. Censorship of cartoons just because some of them have some racism in them is wrong. It's not showing how things should be, it's showing how things are and were. It is up to the parents and teachers to teach the kids what is wrong and why it is wrong.

Besides that, this is America, there is such a thing as freedom of speech, and with that comes the right to watch and read what we like. Government censorship and putting a ban on what we watch and read is exactly like what Hitler did when he ordered certain books be banned and burned (I think it was Hitler, I know it was some major dictator). It sounds too much like political correctness to me, which in turn sounds too much like communism, which has no place in America.

[Calavera]

Originally Posted by Harpoetta

I agree with Bonkers and Jolly Well, censorship should be up to the parents, not the government. Censorship of cartoons just because some of them have some racism in them is wrong. It's not showing how things should be, it's showing how things are and were. It is up to the parents and teachers to teach the kids what is wrong and why it is wrong.

Besides that, this is America, there is such a thing as freedom of speech, and with that comes the right to watch and read what we like. Government censorship and putting a ban on what we watch and read is exactly like what Hitler did when he ordered certain books be banned and burned (I think it was Hitler, I know it was some major dictator). It sounds too much like political correctness to me, which in turn sounds too much like communism, which has no place in America.

So, no government censoring is ideal? Does this view still stand if Girls Gone Wild commercials were to go uncensored? No matter what a parent does, a child can always see things on TV, unless you remove it from the house and forbid your child to ever leave home.

[Jolly Well]

Pornography and something that is racist just to be racist I'll agree should probably not be viewed - but where the lines are is what is difficult.

Example:

Debbie does whatever - We can all likely agree this has zero artistic merit and contributes none of the virtues of society we want to be upheld. Not being watched by current or future children while in my home, and I hopefully impact their life enough to where it isn't their first DvD purchase when they go off to college.

However....

Who decides what is pornographic? At one time, James Joyce's Ulysses was banned as pornographic. There are many more instances where some artistic or literary work was called pornographic simply because some group of people wished it to be so.

Racism simply sucks. (I wanted to be more intelligent there, but getting to the point works well at times...) I hope my kids grow up in a diverse world where everyone gets along.... fantasy I know.

I recently watched a documentary about the Arian Nation and Ku Klux Klan. A large portion of the program was footage of ignorant people speaking ignorance to other ignorant people. Much of the program used racist language and props. There is no doubt that much of the content of the program was racist in nature.

By watching the program, I become more educated on the issue. I recognized how absurdly stupid the people that followed this way of life truly were. The people in the documentary were uneducated and their ideals were low rent. I listened to their message in its entirety and am no more the racist for doing so.

There were some racist programs in the past - Archie Bunker, Disney, Betty Boop, so on and so forth.... They were largely accepted in society of the time and therefor live on by way of T.V. Land and DvDs, and today we recognize them for what they are which is why most programs today don't follow in their footprints.

There are also times when people call "racist" when it really isn't. I've seen on the news when a cop shoots and kills a black man that was "allegedly" committing a crime. Sure enough, Reverend Al Sharpton is on the nightly news calling out the police for being racist and shooting a black man when in reality he was shot not because he was a man, or black, or whatever - but for the fact he was placing an innocent in danger. I am in no way saying that every instance of a police shooting happens as this. Police corruption is another issue, and I've no doubt that we have some racist cops - citing one instance from our past as an example

I have serious issues of formal/official censoship from the government, schools, etc.
Parental censorship is something entirely different. My qualms aren't with parents forbidding pornography and the like, as I will do it myself.

Speaking from the view point of parental censorship, what do you consider inappropriate for you children to watch?

Baby is only a few days past 3 months, so not speaking from parental control so much as personal ideology.

Outside of material like pornography which have no artistic or merit in society, I cannot imagine banning anything. I may forbid content at times for age/maturity, but eventually they will have access to the material when they are at a level they can fully comprehend it (or at least are mature enough to discuss it with myself or their mother).

I'm en route to my Masters and in a recent class this topic was discussed in class.

In Beyond the Spiderwick Chronicles novel, there is a little girl who lies to get her way. In a nutshell, it all works out for her and there are no negative consequences to her lying. Some students thought this would "teach" their kids to lie and mentioned they would not allow their children to read it.

I don't feel children need to be "taught" to lie; it's going to happen. The novel mentioned is very well written and one of the better novels avaliable to children (and adults) today. Banning it is absurd to me as all the child will get out of it is never having experienced the journey they would have taken by reading it....


EDIT - posts were added while I was writing this...

So, no government censoring is ideal? Does this view still stand if Girls Gone Wild commercials were to go uncensored?

Yes! No government censoring is ideal, but not realistic. Not that I would want pronography on my televison during every commerical break, but rather that if I were to have a daughter - she would not grow up in a society that would expect her to behave as such when she is 21. I know this isn't a censorship issue, but a yearning for a better society; but alas I find myself dreaming.


You nailed it when you said you didn't want parental guidelines so much as freedom for the parents to censor their childrens exposure. We completely agree there. The issue of a more official form of censoring is personal preference that is going to include so much of our persons that I don't think it can ever really be summarized completely. Politics, Religion, Families, and so much more are going to play a role in tose decisions. I am pretty liberal on decisions such as these. I recognize it and fully realize that a die-hard conservative will oppose my views down to the foundation and that there are so many categories on "in-between" that we can disagree on this and agree on that. Either way, a healthy discussion/debate is a good thing.

[Calavera]

Let's throw in another factor in this debate, just for funsies.

Child psychology. It is known that children are highly impressionable, especially in the early years of childhood. A child can be programmed with ideals, which could lead to disaster.

With no government censorship, it would perfectly possible for a young child to click on a TV and see a veritable snuff film, a highly pornographic program, or a cartoon shoving a Jew into an oven while shouting horrid things at the Jew. No matter what the parent does, a child will always have TV unless said child is locked in a room with no means of seeing or hearing any kind of broadcasting.

If that happens, then the imprinting in this child may lead it to later lack empathy. It may lead the child to be indifferent to human suffering. The child will develop mental scarring that can lead to killing, maiming, raping, and committing genocide. In turn, he will breed more of the same if the pattern continues.

Ask yourself if you want your young, fragile child to be able to turn on the TV and even catch a glimpse at unspeakable acts that are on television simply to be on television. Ask yourself if you want to child to develop mental scarring from the living room TV.

On the other hand, with complete censorship, we have a world full of mindless drones. We will be easily manipulated and used merely as tools.

The question of TV censorship is not to eliminate it or make it the law of the land. A happy medium needs to be found. In harsh reality, neither end of the spectrum will do any good for us at all.

In a perfect world, we would not have to worry about these things and censorship would not be needed...but we are far from living in a perfect world.

[Gladman]

Heres one from 1935. Kinda funny, but not exactly politically correct by any means.

YouTube Video

[Willace-the-Clown]

People grow up to be who they will be nuttin will change that I know movies dont play any influince cuz i gre up from the age of two watching horror with all the blood & everything that comes with it. & it didn't influince me I play really violent games all the ones blamed for killing. I Grew up a Protector & a nice guy witch now a days i more days then most Hate being. 89% of the time now a days i reather be a monster & destroyer but sadly i cant be cuz a protector is what i was ment to be.

[Voice]